Down here in deep SEC country the hard core Timmy T fans seem to think if he can just wish it so he could be an NFL quarterback… Its pretty obvious from anyone who follows the game both pro and college that the adjustments this young man needed was three years past. His motion is long and horrible and he needs to step up way more than a pro pocket will afford him. He’s pretty much anti changing positions…but much like Eric Crouch… or Tommy Frazier… i can’t see Tim Tebow playing NFL qb anytime soon.
What makes this a little unique is how Tebow moves the meter with his faith… and his goodboy image… more than one or two posters have stated that the NFL is full of degenerate sickos and poor Timmy shouldn’t be exposed to this. A friend of mine bet me that he wouldn’t try the NFL… she said that he wouldn’t expose himself to something so base… Okay… wow… so when he falls on his face will it be because the devil was at play in that training camp??
On a pure football level if your team takes him with a 1,2,3 rd pick… That means that they are spending a high pick on a guy who probably wouldn’t see the field for two years unless he switches positions… and even though he is a gifted athlete… can he really expect to switch positions and have instant success…
My thought… he’s Chris Cooley… he needs to get his pass catching hands ready… i wonder if he can take the every play pounding… he’s tough as heck but he’s been playing QB… Thoughts?
I’m half temped to boycott the thread because it’s a sloppy, error ridden OP that’s been done recently almost verbatim but I’m a sucker for NFL talk. Would it have been too much to use proper punctuation, paragraphs and explain what the link was?
The argument that Tebow wouldn’t go to the NFL because it’s too base is asinine in the extreme. Tebow isn’t going to turn down big money in the NFL and he’ll think that playing the NFL will both improve his profile and give him a larger platform to spew his garbage. If anything, he’d see playing with so called “devils” as a calling to save them. Of course the most absurd thing about that statement is that playing in the SEC is way more base, criminal and corrupt than the NFL could ever dream to be.
Tebow isn’t going to change positions because his management is smart. They see that he can’t change positions, he doesn’t have any skills that make him useful in another position. When I read someone suggest Tebow playing any position besides QB I immediately discount their football acumen. Tebow ran a 4.9 40. He’d be the slowest tight end or receiver in the entire football league. He’s never once shown any ability to run a route or catch a pass. With the ball in his hand he can’t make people miss, in Florida he just barreled over smaller defenders, that doesn’t work in the NFL. Guys like Crouch and Frasier were very fast and played in true option offenses where they were treated very much like running backs. Running the ball in a spread isn’t similar at all and doesn’t translate to the NFL. And it should be noted that Crouch and Frasier flopped. About the only converted QB I can think of that’s had any real success if Brad Smith and he’s twice as fast and elusive as Tebow.
Tebow is working on his throwing motion with some very good people. I don’t think Tebow has a future in the NFL but if there’s any chance of it working out it’s as a QB. A team shouldn’t spend a pick before the 4th round on him and shouldn’t expect results before say 2012, but with his size and leadership abilities he could grow into something if a QB guru is able to reign in that ugly throwing motion and translate it into accuracy and timing. I do think he’ll be willing to put in the time and effort needed, the question is if those old habits can be fully abolished. It’s a long shot, but it’s not impossible. It’s wise to not throw at the combine, his transformation won’t be complete and he’ll look poor side-by-side with the other QBs while throwing, but he’ll look great with the tape measure. At his Pro Day teams will get a good enough look at his progress and he’ll have his tutor there to coach him through it.
Ahh twenty years online (ie Compuserve, Prodigy) I still subscribe that grammar/spelling smack is weak but meh…
To get on with the issue…I concur that number one is nonsensical. Merely mentioned it because I’ve heard on multiple occasions. As for the main/2nd point. I simply can’t remember a player or a time when a PRO qb had to have his entire throwing motion overhauled. I can remember going to Bears camp as a kid and remember Vince Evans working on his touch passes… (Back then he had a gun. but not a lot of touch) But not someone doing a complete re-creation of a TOP? prospects throwing motion. This is being thrown out like it happens frequently. Can anyone point to a solid example?
I don’t know that the NFL is any more immoral, overall, than the SEC (or the Big Ten, PAC 10, Big 12, Big East, whatever conference you like). Tebow has surely had plenty of hard-partying, hard-drinking, fornicating teammates at Florida. Let’s not kid ourselves.,
My hunch is that Tim Tebow isn’t NFL material. He was a superb college quarterback, but PROBABLY isn’t good enough to make it in the pros. That doesn’t mean he can’t or won’t give it his best shot. I think he wants to succeed in the NFL, and will work like mad to make that work.
If he doesn’t succeed, it will be purely and simply because he wasn’t quite good enough. NOT because he’s too saintly to work with sinful NFL players. NOT because he selfishly refused to change positions (he has no shot at being a successful safety or receiver; he’ll either make it to the NFL as a quarterback or not at all). And above all, NOT because he didn’t do everything in his power to prepare.
At best, his game management skills might net him a career as a journeyman backup, and more as a Detmer than a Kitna or Dilfer. Someone who can ride the clipboard and fill in when absolutely needed. There is too much he needs to work on to adjust his throwing to an NFL starter level (let alone a franchise QB lvl) and, as Omni pointed out, he has shown no skills otherwise to justify a transition to another position.
I don’t get the whole obsession people have over him making the NFL anyway. It’s not like his college career is invalidated if he flops in the NFL. Lots of truly great college players did nothing in the NFL, and their legacies are fine.
And yeah, he’s a loooong way from being a franchise QB or even a solid starter. He’s a late round project at best.
Tebow isn’t a top prospect. He’s a very successful college player who is expected to get picked in the middle rounds. If he goes higher it’ll be because a team is really committed to working with him over the long haul. I think Omniscient is dead on. Other prospects do go through these kinds of issues - I remember concerns about Vince Young’s throwing motion, for one - but they players are not usually this famous before the draft. But as noted, Tebow is a big name because he won so much at the college level, not because he’s expected to be a star in the NFL.
Tebow PROBABLY doesn’t have the tools to be an NFL quarterback, but there’s a small chance he could develop into a decent one.
But he DEFINITELY doesn’t have the speed to be an NFL receiver.
He’ll either play quarterback in the NFL, or he’ll get a civilian job. No disgrace in that- James Street, John Shaffer, Charlie Ward and Tony Rice and Tee Martin won national championships in college, but didn’t have the tools to play QB in the NFL, either. It happens.
He’s run a 4.6-something. More importantly, he’s 240 pounds, so why would he have to worry about whether he has the speed to be an NFL receiver anyway? He could very easily be a larger than average NFL tight end.
He doesn’t have to be a receiver. H-back is getting pretty popular. Besides, you should have non-quarterbacks on your roster that can sling a ball if necessary for trick plays to be more subtle and useful.
Nitpick: they never even made it that far. Crouch bailed in training camp–while in the process of learning new positions. Tommie Frazier went undrafted because of blood clots and Crohn’s disease; he almost certainly could have played *somewhere *with his amazing talent, but the consensus was that his medical problems compounded his not-pro-quarterback profile coming out of Nebraska, and thus there were no takers. He tried athletic administration and coaching for a while and didn’t do well. Now he’s a civilian who occasionally does autograph shows.
This ESPN article on the same subject goes a bit deeper and notes that Peyton Manning and David Carr had to overhaul their deliveries in the time before the Combine. During the Combine you’ll always hear talk about QBs who need work on their delivery and there’s mixed results. Tebow probably has farther to go than just about anyone, but remaking a throwing motion isn’t completely foreign and it’s been successful. Tebow’s biggest issue probably isn’t his throwing motion, it’s the footwork and visual cues he needs to learn to play under center and not in the gun. He also needs to learn the reads of a pro style system. Tebow essentially is starting from zero as far as being an NFL QB and the throwing motion might be the most correctable of all the issues.
I have not seen numbers like that. It will be interesting to see if he runs at the Combine. I bet he won’t, and if he doesn’t he’s basically ensuring he is a) too slow and b) never going to play anywhere but QB.
Greg Olsen ran a 4.5 40 and weighed 254 pounds at the Combine. I’m not sure in what world Tebow would be a larger than average TE. Kevin Boss, a more prototypical block/pass TE, ran a 4.7 40 at 253 pounds in the same year. Both guys were 6-6. Tebow is 10-20 pounds lighter and 3 inches shorter and is probably slower than both, he’s never blocked anyone or run a route. Anyone who thinks he can be a TE is insane.
Semi-hijack: Bert Emanuel, but then he ran a 4.3 40 and really only played QB in college because he was willing to move to a lower-profile program (Rice) where they let him play QB, from UCLA where they would have turned him into a receiver or defensive back from the get-go.
Matt Jones might count too. I’m sure there are several examples, but I think the will universally be guys with elite speed and/or those who came from option/run first systems.
Since the Combine starts tomorrow I started a thread for it. I’m sure much of the Tebow blather will consume the weekend so I’m sure many of our questions will be answered in the coming days.