Shagnasty and at least one other poster just don’t get one very important thing: no matter what else is so good about the South, the government glorification of the racist past, racist present, and the so-called heroes of the confederacy wipes all that out. Think about it. In the South, there are schools and roads and other things named by the government after confederate generals and senior confederate politicians. And the Blacks are supposed to ignore this?
Indeed, I suppose it would be downright foolish for modern African Americans to ever want to visit such a vile and despicable part of the country everagain.
Thinking more about how to absolve ourselves of the guilt brought on by the actions of our ancestors, it’s really all England’s fault. More specifically it’s the fault of the Church of England and its close ties to the state. If the Pilgrims and Puritans were not driven to America, there would be no King cotton and hence no slave trade. Native Americans would be happier too if we never arrived…and the bison…and the passenger pigeons…and the cod…and…
So, I propose that we arm our stealthy Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirits to the gills, sneak over and bomb England off the face of the map. *Pip pip, cheerio, United Kingdom. You’re welcome cod, et al. *
Ninja’d by Urbanredneck because my internet connection failed…
Nope, sorry, won’t wash. I mean, we’ll cop to a lot of shit we’ve been responsible for over the centuries, but there are limits. It was the Fourth of July just three days ago – you can’t have forgotten already? Anything after 1776 is something you’re just going to have to sort out amongst yourselves.
No recrimination without representation, that’s what I say.
No, they’re supposed to help change it. And with the continuation of the reverse migration south, I believe that will happen sooner than later.
What I find just as appalling is the ubiquitous usage of Native American names for all types of things and places in this country. That strikes me as a slap in the face to Native Americans. *Let’s kill them or move them onto reservations, but they have good names for things, so let’s keep those. *
The South-defenders in this thread still are missing the point, I think. It’s not that the South is a terrible place, and Southerners are evil – the South is a great place (as good as any region of the US), and Southerners are fine people (as good as any people in the US). But the place and people aren’t perfect. And the major problem, in my mind, is that so many Southern white people (not all, but many or most) refuse to accept the truth of history – that Southern culture and tradition up until recent decades (and even beyond, in some ways) was dominated by white supremacism, and treated black people abominably, through slavery and a century beyond. And that there is good reason for many people to see the Confederate battle flag as the symbol of this abominable treatment. Not accepting this doesn’t make one evil, but it’s a flaw, and a correctable flaw. Well-meaning people should recognize this flaw and try to correct it.
That’s it. The South isn’t bad, and Southerners aren’t bad. But there’s still a problem here.
These things only work, in one way, if you look at history. Truth always, by necessity, comes before reconciliation. And there is no truth in the ‘woe is us, you guys should stop propogating the image we’re all slow and racists!’
Your image sucks because it’s the twenty first century and your cities are still littered with recognition and celebration of those who died to enforce the enslavement of others. If you don’t like the image that gives people of who you are, then change it. Stop blaming everybody else and do something about it.
If, somewhere in the Germany, there were a town with a Hitler Main Street, Goering Secondary School, and a Nazi flag flying in the town centre they’d be getting the same reactions you are to the pathetic, “no matter how it looks, we’re not Nazi’s!” or “we’re soo misunderstood!” Or “but it’s our culture dating back to …”.
Equivocation and bullshit, straight up. This being a new century people have run out of patience, rightly so, I think.
Of course! It was originally called the war of norther aggression. But as wars go, it was rather polite, battles being watched by women and children from hilltops, mint juleps being sipped on large porches. It was so restrained that they changed the name to the “Civil War”!
And that there is good reason for many people to see the Confederate battle flag as a simple symbol of Southern pride, honor, culture, and hospitality, without a range of racism. Not to mention acting as reminder that states rights is something that the country was built on. Not accepting this doesn’t make one evil, but it’s a flaw, and a correctable flaw. Well-meaning people should recognize this flaw and try to correct it.
After all, the flag’s been flying for over 50 my years and the only additional things that have become attached to it is a car on a TV show and Southern rock.
The flag returned to prominence in the South as a symbol against Civil Rights, for segregation, and in support of other white supremacist polices and practices. Even if many who fly it don’t see it this way, it’s still extremely obnoxious to do so when so many of one’s neighbors will for rational reasons, and a sign that one is dismissive of the views of black people when it comes to symbols of anti-black racism.
Plus you ignored the first few sentences of my post.
I don’t know that it matters much in the analysis but the connection between New England and the slave trade was largely the triangle trade. They bought slaves in Africa, traded them in the Caribbean for sugar, brought the sugar to New England to be distilled into rum, took the rum to Africa to trade for slaves, rinse and repeat. Much of the Boston Brahmin wealth was created through the exploitation of slaves. Most of the slaves that worked in America’s south was imported directly into the south.
The sin of slavery is a blemish on the ENTIRE nation. The sin of severe discrimination and racism is a blot on the conscience of the entire nation. The continued reverence for the antebellum period and things associated with slavery or the defense of slavery is uniquely southern.
I don’t think people discriminate against southerners based on heritage any more than they discriminate against South African whites based on heritage.
I know a German guy. His grandfather was a German soldier during WWII. He was brave and valiant by all accounts. He is justifiably proud of his grandfather’s valor but he is ashamed of the holocaust. So he does not display swastikas or idolize any of the German leaders (except Rommel).
Have some shame. Take down the confederate flag and honor the valor of your ancestors but decry the cause for which they fought. I have a cousin that fought in Iraq. I am proud of him and his service but I am not particularly proud of the war in which he fought.
