Probably. I voted for Stein and would absolutely have voted for Clinton if my vote counted as much as everyone else’s.
The same Green Party whose VP nominee said Sanders and his supporters represent white supremacy? Way to draw in voters.
Lol. Nobody except hardcore Tea Partier types and the think tank crowd gives a fuck about Bernie’s socialism. He’d have done a much better job of keeping the white working-class vote in the Driftless Area, Michigan, and Pennsylvania which would have preserved his firewall. And if you actually wouldn’t have voted for him if he’d been the nominee, I hope you never lectured Sanders supporters that they had to support Clinton to stop Trump.
I think a much better idea than someone like Bernie would be a kind of “prairie populist” with a hardcore economically left wing message, but who doesn’t let ranting extremists like BLM run the show, who doesn’t believe being skeptical about a big upsurge in Muslim immigration makes you a bigot, who is willing to call out the campus PC brigade for being ridiculous ivory tower ninnies who don’t have a clue about the real world. And who–to give Bernie credit on one point–gives up on the gun control issue.
sadly tho, that was far from Bernie on the non-economic issues; he not only won the Muslim vote but now wants to make one the face of the party as DNC chair; the SJWs loved him a lot more than Hillary.
Yeah, I’m not sure that would have actually been a GOOD thing, but I do wonder about it.
It’s a crappy election when you have to hold your nose even to vote third party.
one thing people forget tho trump is as much of a middle finger to the gop leadership as the dems
So Kurt Eichenwald has a piece in Newsweek today that, among other things, effectively trashes the idea that Bernie could have won in my mind. This is just a sample of things that apparently appear in the Republicans’ Sanders oppo book:
Does anybody seriously believe that the voters who wouldn’t go for Hillary would have gone for this?
Yeah, and?
Clinton had to carry all that and her husband’s economic record–McJobs, anyone?
Bernie could have done pretty well. I can’t say he’d win. I think a lot of pissed off centrists and feminists would have stayed home. But he might have had more people in other categories show up, and he might have had a better electoral map.
I know I was out when Hillary Clinton won. I said I couldn’t campaign for her, and I didn’t. I think I read too much poison against her by people who–yeah, maybe they were sexist, I don’t know. But also, I don’t remember the 1990’s all that fondly, and while Bubba was treated very badly by the right-wing media, he was also incapable of holding onto the Democratic majority. I now think that if he’d actually grasped and respected working-class pocketbook issues, people would have been OK with gays in the military and the like.
On the charisma thing: Hillary had the lethal combination of looking electable while having relatively few truly passionate supporters. She had some, of course.
I really believe a lot of people stayed home because they thought she would win–and they didn’t feel personally invested enough to show up and make it happen, nor did they feel like it was close enough that they had to do so. Because I almost did that myself. Granted, I went after the likely lunch hour, but I was surprised not to stand in line for half an hour to vote.
Trump’s unelectability got him in, and I suspect, given how unserious the man is, he’s disappointed. It would have been a lot more fun to lose.
But I think it also matters that Hillary was the type to promise nothing, so she didn’t have to break a promise. The Democrats need to learn from the success of the “Contract with America” and the “New Deal.” Give us a program that we know we’re voting for, even if it isn’t perfect. And keep that promise.
Let me rephrase a thing a little. I surmise that lots of people who were unenthusiastic about Hillary figured that other people were enthusiastic and would show up, and so didn’t show at the polls themselves. I showed up to vote for other Democrats–not out of a desire to vote for Hillary herself, and I had to argue with myself whether to vote for her or Jill Stein.
So, I take it that Hillary had terrible turnout and thus terrible coattails.
I suspect, but don’t know, that a larger fraction of Democrats in blue-leaning states would have shown up for Bernie. Most voters who liked Bernie would have shown up to get our loud Jewish Commie grandpa into the White House, because we knew that it would be hard and it depended on us, not on someone like Amy Poehler who liked Hillary.
It might not have been enough. On paper, Trump was able to get the Reform Party types and the pro-lifers, and that’s a big bloc to beat. But it might have worked.
This is shit that EVERY Democratic candidate has to deal with so unless you are saying that a Democrat couldn’t win this election, you are just pointing out where the partisan fault lines lie.
Trump’s corruption and shady dealings just didn’t stick when he was being compared to Hillary with her secret (and expensive) speeches to wall street and the money going to her foundation. Bernie doesn’t have that whiff of corruption.
Hillary is clearly a globalist and a corporatist who believes that free trade is good for America (or at least her American friends). Bernie has been a hard line union supporter for a long time.
There is a clear fault line between white working class voters in the rust belt who are pro-union anti-trade and New Democrats who think that a “rising tide lifts all ships” when it comes to free trade and don’t really do more than give lip service to unions because they are inherently political entities have nowhere else to go.
Were you around in 2008? There were a shit ton of Hillary or Bust voters who insisted that we must, simply MUST elect a woman. Then McCain nominated Palin and they all went away.
So you voted for her because of … vagina.
Male privilege as strong as ever? Please, tell me more.
If your choices were Bernie or Trump, you would have stayed home?
Right, because life has been SOOOOOOO unfair to Hillary Clinton. :rolleyes:
So the things Hillary got in trouble for that aren’t really gender based:
Giving expensive secret speeches to Wall Street while claiming to be the right person to clean up wall street.
Deleting emails while her emails were under subpoena.
Giving extra access to folks who donated generously to the Clinton Foundation.
DNC, Debbie Wasserman Schultz (who later got a job in her campaign), and Donna Brazile.
I don’t think any of these issues would have received less focus if she had a penis.
Stuff that might have had something to do with her being a woman:
Her reputation as a nasty bitch. To some extent, people expect better behavior from women than men. Men can get away with being assholes sometimes, women, less so. But her reputation as a nasty bitch is generally well deserved.
Her support of Bill Clinton and vilification of his accusers. These days it is vogue to assume anyone accused of sexual assault guilty but back then having your wife take a bullet for you could insulate you from these sort of accusations. And Hillary took the bullet because she had political ambitions that depended on Bill Clinton’s political trajectory. If a man did something similar, he wouldn’t be taking the same sort of heat for it.
Hillary didn’t lose because she’s a woman. She lost DESPITE being a woman.
And you think that her sex worked more against her than for her?
Her sex was almost the only thing she had going for her. She had the fervent support of people who would support any Democrat with a vagina.
And women that supported Bernie only did so because that’s where the cute boys were. I am NOT the only reason women were supporting Bernie.
I don’t think Bernie could have survived and won through all of the “communist!/Socialist!” BS the right would have thrown at him. I always get a chuckly when people complain about Bernie getting shafted by the Dems. Shall we recall that Bernie is NOT a Dem? He chooses to be an independent. I guess that means he decided to forgo some of the support of the Dem machinery. I think Bernie is too (or at least is perceived to be) too liberal for the general electorate. I agree with him about 95% of the time, but I’m well to the left.
I think you may need a broader brush, you missed the Andromeda Galaxy.
Hillary is reviled by half the country. And a lot of those who do not revile her still did not want her as President. I did not want her a President and I’m a life long Democrat. I couldn’t think of another democrat who carried as much baggage as her. Had she run against anyone but Trump (or Cruz), I would have voted Republican.
Sanders would have beat him senseless.