I understand both sides in this. They are BOTH people who are unwilling to work thru the political process for change. They have no respect for the law or for the safety of their fellow citizens. They simply want what they want and think the ends justifies the means. Both sides are completely wrong.
So, to distill all of that down to coherent english, you feel that including stories about war deaths and people’s reactions to them stateside is justified in a thread about campaign '04 violence because of…your own feelings of insecurity and persecution? “It’s not really OK for anybody to be violent, but (wink,wink) I can understand it when my side does it?”, did I get that straight?
You’re a teenager, aren’t you?
So has anyone kept ‘score’ of which political party has gotten ‘attacked’ ‘vandalized’ etc the most? Just curious because I’ve been hearing a lot of BS that’s been happening in regards to both political parties; as the election nears things have gotten extremely partisan (big surprise! 
)
Equipoise has identified herself as being married to a man who travels a great deal.
I understand why.
I would never wink at vandalism, violence and death, I leave that for you guys.
You guys really don’t get it, and that’s what’s amazing to me. You think it’s all so funny. You think it’s all so trivial. My god.
To answer your question, no, you didn’t get it straight.
I’m a grandmother who cares very deeply about the world my granddaughter will live and grow up in.
Brutus, is that you?
We gain nothing, and lose much, when we demonize our political opponents. It saddens me that you choose to do this.
Daniel
Yes, but it’s true. Have the people in power, who just happen to be Republicans, not gotten away with corruption and murder? And yes, I do believe that the killing of innocent Iraqi people and American and Allied troops is murder, not because it’s a war, but because it was based on bogus reasons, and was totally unnecessary.
I’m not anti-war. I’m anti-THIS war. I fully supported Afghanistan, even though I knew there would be casualties. Bush botched that up too, so the people who were killed there died for no reason too.
People have had their heads in the sand since January 2001. They buried their whole bodies after 9/11, and this administration has taken every advantage of that.
I don’t demonize decent, thoughtful Republicans. I believe they exist, though they sure don’t say much on this message board. I “demonize” (whatever that means; I don’t believe in demons) people who won’t open their damned eyes. It isn’t a matter of “agreeing with me” it’s a matter of SEEING REALITY and taking responsibility as citizens of this country.
Unfortunately, you DO demonize thoughtful, decent Republicans, by virtue of not excluding them every time you spray venom on the ones who deserve your attacks. And that, more than anything, diminishes your own capacity for compassion, respect, and understanding.
Daniel
You’re a teenage grandmother?? That explains it…
Any reason you’re nipping at my heels like a fucking Chihuahua?
Wait a minute. I though the JEWS owned everything!
FTR, as a rule I think all arsonists are assholes, no matter whose building they decide to torch.
What a concession!
That’s because they’re too busy running the world!
I see. So if I could just open my eyes and SEE that the Republicans are lying, cheating bastards with all the power, then I, too, could be as enlightened as you. If only the DEMOCRATS were in power, we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in today.
Got it.
Guess what, Dearie? A lot of people don’t agree with you one little bit. That doesn’t make you right and them the shit-spawned sons of Satan. That makes you people who disagree and nothing more. Personally, I think your grandchild is going to grow up in a much better world because of the war in Iraq and the war on Terror. I don’t think Bush has gotten much right in his execution of TWOT or TWII, in fact he fucked up the process pretty much at every turn, but fundamentally both were the right thing to do.
Well, shit! That makes one bet that I’ve lost. . .
Up to a point. Getting rid of Saddam is unquestionably a Good Thing in itself, but if the result is a failed state that becomes a haven for terrorists because of Bush’s incompetence, then I submit that toppling Saddam would have been a mistake.
Bush should have been honest about the WMDs–he wasn’t.
He should have gone in with overhwelming force per the Powell Doctrine–he didn’t.
He should have worked with the Iraqi institutions that commanded respect among the people, like the clergy headed by Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani–he didn’t. Bush has, as you noted, fucked up this war from the get-go. I don’t see why we need another 4 years for him to work on his learning curve.
And the War on Terror is flawed from the very concept. You can’t declare a war on a method–you might as well declare war on car bombs. But what you can do and what Bush has failed to do is to declare war on terrorists. His 2002 declaration that Osama bin Laden was “irrelevant” only underscores Bush’s stupidity and incompetence.
Not at all, Equipoise. I’m a different doper who wishes you’d shut the fuck up. You don’t like Bush. Fine-that’s your prerogative. Start a thread and state your opinions-that’s a reasonable expression of free speech. Start a half-dozen threads which all bear the same basic theme from a slightly different angle of view, and I’m forced to conclude that you’re a one dimensional person with way too much time on their hands.
Before you begin pounding the keys with more shrill cries, take a powder and ponder this: it has already been established that this is a predominantly liberal board, so in reality, you’re preaching to the choir. Beyond that, persons who feel differently than you aren’t going to be swayed by your diatribes, and will instead assess you as several fries shy of a Happy Meal.
You can’t be serious. More likely the kid will be dealing with the fallout (perhaps literally) from the generation of terrorists we created by going into Iraq.
You seem to be ignoring that we’re creating terrorists faster then we’re eliminating them.
Jesus, listen to yourself. Maybe we should try someone other then Bush? How about someone that would fuck up at every other turn? That’s already 50% better right?
We’d have to have a LOT fewer conservatives before anyone here is “preaching to the choir.” Call him a one-trick pony if you feel that he is, argue against his position if you feel you can, hell, call him names because we’re in the pit, but can we have a single thread where some conservative doesn’t pop out of the woodwork about how outnumbered they are?
Yea, yea, I’ve heard it all before. Never seen any proof that new (as opposed to people who would be terrorists anyway) terrorists are training in any signifigant numbers, but hell, I know it makes the anti-war faction feel good to believe this. To be fair, I have no doubt that there are some terrorists created by the war, but I doubt they are signifigantly greater in number than they would be if we had never gone into Iraq. People who oppose the war like to say that it caused a large number of people in the MID East to hate us. Guess what? A large number of people over there already hated us and continue to hate us. Not for any bogus George W Bush “They hate freedom” bullshit reasons, but because many of the religeous and political power structures over there feed off of that hate to secure their own positions, so they nurture the hate.
Maybe, maybe not, depends on which 50%, but where anywhere have I said I’m voting for Bush? I support Kerry (although not for any reason to do with foreign policy. Mark my words, if Kerry is elected he’ll be forced into continuing the exact same type of policy in the Mid East and Iraq), but for more important reasons than the sideshow in Iraq.