Oy! :smack:
Look, his sexual addiction (to hookers?) makes him a sex addict. Being a mugger makes him a criminal.
Once more with feeling… and addiction makes an addict. Commiting crime makes one a criminal. Motive to commit a crime varies and sometimes it’s drug related. Stop trying to draw wrong conclusions.
Let me expand, using tobacco.
My father partakes in the ‘victimless’ activity of smoking. The burn holes on my parent’s furniture (including the mattress :eek: ), the stench of stale secondhand smoke on everything, the fact that my asthmatic son can’t spend more than 1/2 in the house - he does not view this as imposing a price upon others for his habit. He rationalizes his habit, and I’m evil because when he visits me and wants to smoke, he has to go outside. My mother, to her great credit, was able to quit several decades back, despite his best passive-aggressive efforts to sabotage her.
The second-hand smoke portion of your post is the only thing relevant to the conversation. The fact that he’s a careless smoker has nothing to do with whether or not it’s a victimless crime. At any rate, dropping acid doesn’t directly affect anyone but the person who dropped it. Ditto for pot, booze, and any other substance a person might ingest. Where’s the correlation here?
An irrelevant distinction. Her actions do not affect you in the least, so by your own standard, you have no business telling her what to do.
You specifically and repeatedly said that she “needs to mind her own damn business.” So yes, you are most certainly telling her what to do.
And I would add that the second-hand effect is not inherent to smoking. One could smoke alone and never affect anyone but himself.
Not just sometimes, it’s drug related a lot. 16% of the time. And that’s just the ones that got caught.
That’s 16% of the people in jail. A small portion of the people who use drugs. Really small.
That’s just your assertion. Where are the numbers on the total number of drug users?
“America’s prison population topped 2 million inmates for the first time in history on June 30, 2002 according to a new report from the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS).” Crime and Punishment
So, 320,000 people were in jail in 2002 because they committed a crime to get drugs. That’s a lot of people.
I’m not necessarily saying these are “bad” people. But I am saying these are people that thought they could handle the highly addictive properties of certain drugs, and couldn’t. People that likely would have been better off not having the (illegal) drugs in the first place.
How did Quicksilver put it…ah there it is:
The people judging their habit is victimless do not always realize that their habit is not victimless.
That is not to say that everyone’s habit has victims.
That is not to say that everyone’s habit has no victims.
It is saying that some people will rationalize a habit/addiction as being victimless erroneously. My example of my father is one of those. From his point of view, he doesn’t smoke irresponsibly nor does it affect anyone else. The hermit smoker who lives in a concrete house with nothing flamable inside and whose cigaret smoke vents directly into space is not an example. He enjoys himself fully victim free.
Ok, fuckwhiffle, last time I will address this moronic point you insist on beating to death.
I was talking to someone else about her. She was a third party, if at all. She was the topic of conversation, but not involved in the conversation. If she had asked me directly what I thought then I would have said the same thing to her. But as she didn’t ask me directly it is TADA none of my business TADA. Since it is none of my business I have not tried to tell her what to do.
What I did do is tell someone I thought they were wrong in the advice they had given. I was able to tell them this since they brought it up in a public forum. If they had sent monica a private email then I would have had nothing to say since I wouldn’t have been involved. But, since the advice was posted on a public message board that I am member of I decided to comment on the advice. And yes, I took the opportunity to engage the person offering the advice even though it did not affect me or involve me in any way. This was because it was done so publicly.
No advise has been posted by me. I never told monica to mind her own business, and I never advised the original person to shut up or keep their advice to themselves. I simply disagreed with the advice given.
I may have been misinterpreting you misinterpreting me… 
I am in no way, shape, or form advocating a ban on cigarettes and alcohol. When we (the SDMB) danced this dance last, I freely stated that the ban on pot was as intelligent as not allowing me to buy a six-pack at the supermarket before noon on Sunday - not that I’m going to waste my time championing either cause.
I have little-to-no experience with other drugs. I’ll have to rely on numerous articles speaking of the intensely addictive nature of heroin, crack, and meth; given that, these should probably not be legitimized. Other stuff, I don’t have enough facts to form an opinion or take a stand, nor am I going to research (others) taking LSD. If it runs in Newsweek or the NY Times, fine, but it is not important enough for me to go on a cite-hunt.
My original dog in this thread was that you stand by your friends (although I’m not going to get into a true definition of friend anymore - the bell has rung to end that fight). My current dog is the characterization of victimless habits, and that the habit may not be as victimless as one thinks.
Well, on a national level. Salt Lake City surely had laws preceding the 20th century.
I’m currently of the mind that if drug laws are too harsh for our society, people should work to change them rather than passively ignoring illegal behavior. That’s the nice thing about an established set of laws, rather than being observed and ignored based upon one’s personal beliefs we can as a society make those decisions to lessen conflict.
Using your own statistics and conclusions:
If 16% of imprisoned criminals are there due to drug related offenses. Let’s assume (incorrectly) that they are there for charges other than just drug posession… say some sort of violence or theft.
And since drugs lead to criminal behaviour (according to your conclusions) then the proportion of drug related criminals in jail is necessarily much higher than users at large (not in jail).
And since prisons generally do not hold innocent people in statistically significant numbers.
Then one can only conclude that the drug use problem in free society seems far less serious than you fear. No?
I’ll agree that not all habits are victimless, but that doesn’t make the substance abuse inherently bad for anyone but the user. There’s a difference between saying “drugs are bad and should be banned” and “that particular guy uses drugs in a way that harms people.”
Some people think that because they feel another person is wasting his or her life because they’re not as productive as they might have been, that this is a signed warrant to turn them in, chastise them, or tighten laws on drug use. I’m saying that it’s no one’s business how productive or unproductive another person is. If you’re not committing crimes to support the habit (and most drug users don’t), it’s no one’s business whether or not a kid finishes college or not, lives on $25K a year, or fails to commit to a relationship.
I’ll agree that those 320,000 people would have been better off not doing drugs. But for every one of them, I’ll bet there are ten or more users who have not ruined their lives, stolen from anyone, or ended up in rehab. Of course I have no statistics but my own 35 years of experience. Virtually every friend I’ve ever had has used drugs at one time or another. None of them are criminals. The only friends I have who have been in rehab are people who used alcohol. Most own their own homes, have children and wives or husbands, and jobs (some quite successful), and are generally living happy, fulfilled lives.
Tell that to Rosa Parks.
There are plenty of people working hard every day to change drug laws in America. I support them. But I’m with those who have chosen to ignore the law. Pot laws have been relaxed in many places because the authorities finally realized (duh!) that so many people would be in jail that it was unrealistic to try to incarcerate people for it. The laws are definitely changing…even if it is for the wrong reasons.
Too general. You fail to account for interpersonal relationships. If it’s the guy on the other end of the floor who I only say “Hi” to in the elevator, yes. If it’s my brother, then it is my business, and the rest of the family’s, despite what he might think.*
Well, the act of buying drugs is a crime, but I know that’s not what you meant.
*That’s a ‘ferinstance’, not a case study.
I’m also glad to see you took up my cause from a previous thread. Ignoring laws is not protesting them.
Former college druggie checking in.
I did the same thing these boys did, ON my parent’s money. Eventually I was kicked out of school and had to find a job, apologize to my folks, and wait until June of this year to get my BA-- at the age of 44. In the meantime, that’s a lot of working years I couldn’t get decent jobs because I didn’t have that BA qualification. I’m just lucky my current boss misread my resume but liked me enough to not care when she found out months later.
By the time I quit the hard stuff, I had one friend who had drowned in a hot tub while on a cocaine and speed binge, at least five friends who started in on heroin. I just have one thing to say about heroin-- it’s horrible. We’d have a blast on the other stuff (while ignoring life, granted) but once it came to doing heroin that group would basically lay around and bitch at each other or worse. That was the first time I’d ever seen a friend of mine hit another, and it wasn’t the last.
Mind you, I still currently drink & smoke pot, I wouldn’t turn down a nice, mellow hallucinogen, and I think drug laws are archaic, unrealistic and downright racist. That being said, if speed, coke and heroin were wiped off the face of the earth I wouldn’t mourn any of it.
What Monica says up there is what an old friend of mine said when she saw me in my drugged out state: “You’ve changed. And not for the good.” It hurt and didn’t make me stop, but I honestly appreciated her telling me. I’m not advocating Monica say it to their face, but there’s nothing in her note that doesn’t say anything except that she cares about their fates. I want to thank her for reminding me that someone did once care about mine.
Ooh, say, I’m with you right up to here. I also think the drug laws need to be changed, and that they are so bad now that you would have to really want to hurt someone badly to blow them in, but these guys are not Rosa Parks. They are some dudes getting high.