What broke the vertebrae? The punch or the fall?
He was punched with the gloves on, which isn’t too bad, and he just happened to fall weirdly. Every couple of years there’s a big cheapshot like this, it’s unfortunate, but it’s the nature of the game. Leave it on the ice, he’ll get what’s coming to him
So… is that not a serious injury or something? Is it not the direct result of a sneak attack? “It’s just part of the game” is a piss-poor excuse.
Nah, I think hockey is the same game it always been, and this is just a small blip. The McSorley incident for example was almost 4 years ago, not last week. I’ll wager a Nascar driver gets a pretty serious injury every few years or so as well. Like I said, suspend the guy, and leave it at that.
There is a very easy, straightforward solution to that; make all player were full, standard-approved face shields (not the half visors some players wear now, which are not approved and are totally worthless.) If all players wore CSA-approved face shields there would be no eye injuries in the NHL at all.
Simple, clean, straightforward solutions. This “we have to allow fighting to prevent something fighting never really prevented” stuff is stupid.
[QUOTE]
Statistics have proven that since a) the instigator penalty was introduced, and b) a greeater number of players started wewaring a facial shield, the incident of stick infractions that have caused penalties has gone up. Fighting is an integral part of the sport, much like tackling is in football, and players who slide into second with their spikes up in baseball[./QUOTE]
Show me objective evidence that sticks have caused more injuries since those half-assed face shields came into use. Not that there are more PENALTIES - that could just mean they’re calling it more. Gordie Howe used to carve people’s faces up with his stick all the time, they just didn’t call him for it.
Fighting USED to be an integral part of baseball; in the early days of major league baseball there was as much fighting as there is in the NHL today, and it wasn’t terribly uncommon for the fights to continue outside the stadium or get up into the stands. People made the same idiotic arguments you’re making; if the fights are gotten rid off, ooh, bad things will happen. They didn’t.
Bertuzzi quite obviously WAS trying to injure Moore- in retaliation for a perfectly legal and fair hit, I might add. I don’t think Bertuzzi has the brains to actually think of what the specific injury is, but it’s quite clear he intended to injure Moore and put him out of the lineup. There is no other conceivable explanation. What did you think he was trying to do when he smashed Moore’s head into the ice? He was trying to hurt him, was he not?
How was it not intentional? Bertuzzi hit Moore on purpose. He jumped on Moore on purpose. He smashed Moore’s head into the ice on purpose. Doesn’t sound like an accident to me. It was completely intentional. If I hit you in the head with a bat, I can’t say the skull fracture was an “accident.”
Vampychick, he’s shown “remorse” before for other incidents. Too bad. He should go to prison; what he did goes way beyond any reasonable level of implied consent.
To RickJay: Yes, but I’m the optimistic sort of wide-eyed child who hopes that when people say they’re sorry, it actually means something. I’m beginning to learn it usually doesn’t, though.
He should be suspended indefinitely; maybe until about 3 weeks before next training camp and we know whether Moore will play again. If Moore is never going to play again, then add on another year. Not only was the punch bad, but the fact that he drove his head into the ice with his left hand, makes this extremely brutal.
All the NHL needs to do is (1) suspend him for the rest of the year, the playoffs, and maybe some of next year if Vancouver is out early and (2) scrap the goddamn instigator rule already. Without that rule, Bertuzzi (or whoever) drops his gloves, gives the kung fu “come here” wave, they go at it for a minute or two, and it’s over.
Of course, common sense and the NHL go together like Eric Lindros and Bobby Clarke.
And the McSorley thing was worse. You swing a stick like that, you are looking to do serious damage. I’m guessing Bertuzzi just wanted to give him a little reminder (albeit a cheap one), saw him hit the ice all funny, and went “oh shi-”.
I am no doctor and I haven’t read any reports about what caused the actualy injury. It looked to me like it happened on the initial punch becusae it looked like he was unconscious as he was falling to the ice. He didn’t put his hands up or anything and kinda just went limp.
I haven’t seen the film of it, but there were some people on the Canucks’ forum talking about how Bertuzzi’s momentum carried him, and it was more of an awkward fall than a head smashing tackle.
Now I took that with a large chunk of rock salt, but there actually seemed to be some consensus, which surprised me. Can anyone who DOESN’T post to the Canucks’ BB and is fairly reasonable support this opinion?
Bertuzzi incident aside,
What’s up with the fighting in hockey? I makes a legitimate sport look like a damn redneck WWF wrestling show. I mean, I like physical sports like the NFL where a guy can put a mean tackle on another but at least they have the decency to know what’s part of the game and what will get them fined or suspended.
NFL players are testosterone driven also and hate their opponents but i’d stop watching football if during the course of the game two guys pulled their helemts off and started pounding eachother then got some penalty minutes on the bench.
They know how to be sportsman-like and release their anger in legal tackles, blocks, and awesome plays.
Why hockey would allow these skirmishes I have no idea. I like a bodycheck as much as the next guy but the minute those gloves come off I lose interest real fast.
Basketball is another physical sport with lots of pushing and shoving. But any show of a fist to another guys face results in fines and suspensions, the way it should be.
Two things -
Of course his momentum carried him, he followed up the punch by jumping on Moore’s back, putting him in a headlock with his left arm, and driving his limp body into the ice.
He did the same thing to Colorado’s Eric Messier (I think it was Messier) in last years SC playoffs, sans the punch.
The video is linked to on this page.
The NHL’s inability to curb the fighting is a big reason I shun professional hockey while devouring every minute of Olympic hockey coverage I can find every four years.
Well, that and rink size. 
It’s a great game. It’s bizarre to me that I find the NHL’s version so unwatchable.
Well, size does matter. That and over-expansion. The talent available is too thin to support 30 teams. Because the talent pool is so diluted there are players in the league that shouldn’t be.
Look for the NHL to propose changing to 4 on 4 hockey, full time not just OT, during the upcoming work-stoppage. That will open the ice for the talented players and eliminate 4 or 5 players per team thus raising the overall talent level in the league. Players Union won’t like that, but after a year or so without paychecks, I imagine that some players may be willing to cave.
Also, this fall there will be a World/Canada Cup tournament which will be, essentially, a redo of the last 2 Olympic games with the 6 or 7 big teams.
It’s assault and battery and he should be charged. I don’t care if there was a hockey game going on around it at the time.
I would reply that stick infractions are being called tighter because the instigator penalty was introduced, therefore derailing the cause and effect relationship you ascribe.
That’s ridiculous. There are rules on what makes a tackle legal or illegal. What are the rules detailing what is legal in a hockey fight? I would expect them to be similar to boxing rules. Please list them for me.
There is no fighting in Olympic hockey, and virtually none in European hockey. Therefore, fighting is not integral to hockey, though it may be integral to the NHL. Which, I would argue, is one of the reasons that the NHL is on the brink of extinction. If the NHL is all about fighting, then I say good riddance to it. How’s that television contract looking? Oh yeah, it looks great, but it went to the NBA, which had almost as much fighting as the NHL until they took steps to eliminate the fighting, at which point it became a major sport.
Yes, I hope Warren Sapp recovers from his broken neck suffered at the hands of the retaliating Packers.
…or you could ask Darryl Stingley how he’s walking these days. Or you could ask Tony Conigliaro (well, not anymore) or Dickie Thon about how their eyesight is nowadays.
Hell, ask John Roseboro how it felt to get clubbed over the head by Juan Marichal in 1965. Or Joe Theismann what his inseam is. Maybe PJ Brown can kiss and make up with that guy from the Knicks he fought with a few years ago.
Sports are violent. Hockey is more so than the others, but out of necessity.
Fighting is an unfortunately necessary aspect of hockey. People have to be around to defend their more skilled teammates. The game naturally lends itself to getting very fast, very hard runs at people, and if there’s not threat of retaliatory violence, the superstars would get run at on a regular basis. So they bring goons out to protect their stars. It’s in principle not much different from throwing at a batter in retaliation for the other pitcher throwing at your guys.
The international games are different because those guys are all pros and will not risk their careers for what amounts to a series of All-Star games, so why fight and hurt yourself in games that don’t put food on the table?
What Bertuzzi did was chickenshit, just like Dale Hunter years ago and Marty McSorley more recently. If you gotta fight someone, then fight them. Don’t be a chickenshit about it, get in their face and drop the gloves.
BTW, it’s not the fighting that is killing the NHL. It’s the perception that it’s a foreign sport, it’s low scoring, and the players are all 100 years old (Ronnie Francis and Mark Messier, for instance). It’s the same problem that soccer has in the US. Low name recognition combined with low scoring= low ratings= no money.
How about this as punishment? For as long as Moore is injured and unable to play, Bertuzzi is suspended. Thus, every time you start something, you’ll keep in the back of your head that any harm you do will harm you as well proportionately.
How’s that for a chilling effect?
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAFFighting is an unfortunately necessary aspect of hockey. People have to be around to defend their more skilled teammates. [The game naturally lends itself to getting very fast, very hard runs at people, and if there’s not threat of retaliatory violence, the superstars would get run at on a regular basis.[/QUOTE]
That is simply not true.
If fighting is so important to hockey, why does it suddenly vanish during the playoffs? Why do you not see it in European play? The notion that fighting is necessary simply is not borne out by any objective evidence. Hockey can and is played at an extremely high level of quality with little fighting.
There is no argument you can make for hockey “needing” fighting that you can’t make for any other sport. Baseball needs fighting to protect players from beanballs and spikings. Football needs fighting to protect players from late hits and spearing. Basketball needs fighting so star players don’t get hacked on the way to the basket. Why do those sports succeed without fighting?
If you want to cut down cheap contact in the NHL, just make a few rules changes:
Any contact with the stick above the shoulders of a player on his feet: 5 minute major, game misconduct. No exceptions and no distinction for intent. Even if it was an accident you’re out.
Boarding: 5 minute major, game misconduct.
Cross check from behind: 5 minute major, game misconduct.
Elbowing: 5 minute major, game misconduct.
Slashing: 5 minute major.
Your third minor penalty of the game: Game misconduct.
Impeding a player in any way with the stick: Hooking, two minutes, continuous penalty.
Holding a player in any way; Interference, two minutes, continuous penalty.
All players wear full face armor and properly certified helmets.
Now this at least I agree with. The NHL is being killed by obstruction, not fighting. For some reason, they stopped calling penalties for most rulebreaking in the early 90s.
The Edmonton Oilers of the mid 1980s scored as many goals per game as both teams score in the average game today. Hockey’s speed and creativity have been choked off by the refusal to call minor penalties, which stems mostly from the Canadian minor hockey system’s churning out lousy players coached by untalanted coaches.
I don’t know I’d go so far as Rickjay, but I completely agree that the root problem is the league’s apparent inability to call games according to the rulebook. Players get away with hooking, interference, etc., constantly. I don’t think you can watch more than 15 seconds of an NHL game without seeing a couple hooking infractions. It’s ridiculous. It’d be enough to make me take a swing at someone out of frustration, and I’m a pretty mild guy on the ice.
The solution is simple. Enforce the existing rules instead of letting everything go, and the vigilante justice will clear up pretty quick.
For fuck’s sake people, I swear some of you live in Roman times thirsting for gladiator blood. “Fighting is necessary, otherwise the good players will get bumrushed n shit.” Just admit you are bloodthirsty assholes already. If you want rules to be followed, you get the refs to kick out the offenders, you don’t depend on players to do stupid vigilante crap.