sturmhauke, in my world (you know, the real world where people get hurt and not everything is fair) there are two rules.
Fighting in hockey is both an example of reality meeting sports and a perfect coincidence with my own views. If that makes me “bloodthirsty” and an “asshole”, so be it.
You’ll note I specifically said the refs should actually punish offenders. In this case, I’d say it’s a clear case of assault and Bertuzzi should face criminal charges. But hey, if you wanna see blood I guess the current state of things are just right for you.
And spare me the “real world” crap, it’s a fucking game. If Bertuzzi had accidentally slammed into Moore and broke his neck, I wouldn’t be saying any of this (although I do think it’s stupid to subject oneself to such physical abuse as occurs in so many sports on a regular basis). Maybe Bertuzzi didn’t mean for Moore to get so badly hurt, but he clearly meant Moore to feel more than a little love tap.
First, I believe that the Ref’s are doing the best they can to call the game as fair as possible. If we were to go as far as RickJay’s proposal the game would no longer be playable. A certain amount of hooking, slashing, and cross checking is permitted to allow the game to be played. There are 12 guys, moving with a large amount of energy, in a small area, physical contact is going to happen.
Fighting is a necessary part of hockey – but those of you who have never played at a highly competitive level won’t understand why.
I’ve played hockey for 10 years, two of those at the college level. I’ve been in two fights in 10 years (I’m a goalie, so I don’t fight much). I have had players fight to protect me before. I have been slashed, tripped, or cross checked many times during the game. This is done in an effort to throw the goalie off his game. I expect to take some of it. Now it I think its getting excessive, and for whatever reason, the Ref was not calling it, its time for one of my teammates to protect me.
I don’t quite get it. If fighting isn’t necessary in international and Olympic hockey, then why is it necessary for NHL hockey? Other than as a sop to the lunkhead fans who only watch it for the fights…
Hell, the best hockey I’ve ever watched is NOT the NHL. Even Don Cherry said that if you want to watch great hockey, watch the women’s teams! With no checking, they’ve got to move, skate well, pass the puck well… in other words they play the game instead of just trying to charge and smash their way through. You get to see some great stick handling and terrific plays.
I used to watch hockey all the time (both as a fan and because I worked in a related industry). International hockey rocked!
I do’t watch hockey anymore (except during the Olympics) because without cable, all I get is NHL hockey. Yuck.
Rule #1 sounds fair.
Rule #2 sounds like vigilanteism.
The NHL is announcing the terms of his suspension today at 9am. I’m waiting to hear the results. I will pass them along as soon as they’re available. Personally, I think he’s done for the season (including playoffs) without pay.
The NHL made their decision. He’s gone for the remainder of the regular season and playoffs. Here’s a link:
Yes, and sometimes this is necessary.
IMHO, it’s simply not sufficient. Hopefully he’ll go to prison.
Unless someone shows some leadership and changes the league so the cycle of violence ends, somebody will be murdered on the ice. The notion that fighting is “necessary” is probably the most clueless, stupid idea in sports today. Someday someone will actually be killed, and THEN they’ll wring their hands and say “ohhh, how did it come to this? Why haven’t we made them wear proper protective great? Why did we allow cheap shots and fighting? We must change!” Many of the people saying this will be the same numbskulls saying “fighting is a necessary part of the game!” now, all unaware that they’re in a prisoner’s dillemma that can be quite easily solved.
Fighting isn’t a necessary part of football, which has even harder hitting. It
s not a necessary part of basketball or baseball. It’s not a necessary part of soccer (for the players, anyway). And it’s apparently not a necessary part of hockey, since playoff hockey has almost no fighting and is better than regular season hockey.
A very interesting article about another sport and league where the Clueless Brigade said fighting was “necessary”:
Physical contact is not the same as fighting. Bertuzzi didn’t bump Moore out of the way, he punched Moore in the back of the head, fell on top of him, and started a dogpile. Since when is dogpiling part of hockey? When the refs picked everyone off, Moore lay in a pool of his own blood with a broken neck.
Uh huh. I’ve been in martial arts tournaments. Fighting is the whole point at these things, and yet you don’t generally see people being hauled out on stretchers. Why is this? It’s called discipline. Martial arts are big on discipline. NHL hockey apparently isn’t.
Ummm, you don’t generally see many NHL dudes hauled out on stretchers. It’s just as uncommon in the NHL as it is in other sports.
I think that everbody needs to be clear on the point that what Bert did was not fight. It was a blindside/cheapshot/ambush (pick any or all of the terms).
As somebody mentioned earlier, the refs seem to have a problem calling games by the book. Never mind that a game in October is called differently than a game in March, or the way that a first period is called differently than a third period. This is why fighting exists. It is a mechanism for players to police themselves when the refs or the league won’t. Like I said earlier, I think that Moores hit on Naslund was a cheapshot. If the league had given him a suspension (I thought there was a crack down on shots to the head) then this thread doesn’t exist.
There is no excusing what Todd Bertuzzi did. However, Moore needed to be penalized for his hit on Naslund. Earlier in the game in question, Moore was fought by another Canucks player in a more ‘traditional’ hockey fight, ie. the challenge was issued by one player and accepted by the other. When a fight usually happens it is to send the message “we know what you did and we don’t like it”. Obviously, this sort of justice doesn’t sit well with everybody, but it is much better than a game where sticks are carried and swung in a careless manner, or a game where sombody does something like what Bert did earlier in the week, or what McSorley did four years ago or what Eddie Shore did 70 years ago.
The NHL needs to crack down on the officials, the rest will flow from that.
I’m surprised nobody else has commented on this. I think it’s a pretty good idea that would certainly cut down on the most egregious offenses.
And re “fighting being necessary,” again, I love international hockey and I don’t care for NHL’s version. If fighting is “necessary” in hockey, then what the heck am I watching at the Olympics?
It’s either necessary or it isn’t. If it is, then the two games should be called by different names, because they’re obviously different sports. If it isn’t, then it needs to fucking go. Guess which one I choose.
I like watching NHL hockey, but the best hockey game I’ve ever seen was the 2003 NCAA Women’s National Championship game in Duluth. UMD 4, Harvard 3 in double overtime. Go Bulldogs!
The thought crossed my mind, where a player should be suspended as long as the player he crippled is out injured. What if you have a player exagerrate how injured he is in order to keep a player out. I see all sorts of ways people would take advantage of a rule like that. I still say let them work it out on the ice.
Isn’t that what happened in this case; they worked it out on the ice? You’re OK with the way things turned out here?
Hmmmm. I’ll avoid the question of whether fights are integral to the sport of ice hockey & head right to the Bertuzzi-Moore incident because I think that the two aren’t very closely related. Fights involve, in my mind, two active participants; in this case, however, Bertuzzi thuggishly ambushed Moore - I think that’s pretty obvious.
Do I think that Bertuzzi meant specifically to break Moore’s neck? Nah. Do I think he meant to put Moore in a world of hurt for a while? Yeah, of course! Besides, which, it was premeditated. Bert got what he deserved.
The question of whether he should be banned/jailed might depend on the question of reasonableness as it applies to the sport as it’s played in the NHL. What I mean is this: Were Bert’s actions unsportsmanlike/violent above & beyond what can be expected during your average hockey game?
Assault.
That’s all this was. This wasn’t a fight. There is no excuse for this, IMO.
This guy is not an athlete as much as he is a thug. He should do time for this.