Dear Cecil, I’ve been reading your column in the Chicago Reader for years, but your recent column on household cleanliness (or lack there of) has been the first to turn my world upside down. It’s bad enough that the slop hole of an apartment kept by the two single men who live below me Ñ- in which I can not even bring myself to step foot Ñ- is actually cleaner than my humble hovel. What really disturbs me (and I don’t question your facts) is that you’ve put me in a horrible quandary. I now want to go on a cleaning frenzy Ñ- Out, damn spot, Out! Ñ- but I’m horrified to learn that our Clean King, Professor Gerba, sees bleach as the only answer, when its manufacture is a horrible environmental hazard. Are there any other less environmentally hazardous alternatives? How long do these fellows really live anyway? In the washing machine? According to my dentist, I’ve got a low bad guy count in my mouth using baking soda and hydrogen peroxide. Also, isn’t there a difference between chlorine and nonchlorine bleach? Could that be the answer?Michele Marie WhiteChicago, IL
I have pondered this myself, and, because I have nothing better to do with my time, have come up with some thoughts re: bacteria, meat, and you.
First of all, bacteria mostly live on the outside of meats. When supermarkets get the meat to process, it’s already got bacteria on it. They then grind it up to make hamburger, transfering the bacteria to the inside of the meat lump. The bacteria are pretty happy in there, and they multiply like crazy in the couple of days they generally have before they are processed into hamburgers by you, and slapped on the barbecue. On the other hand, French chefs doing the steak tartare thing get very fresh cuts of meat, rinse them off pretty well, then grind them up and serve them immediately so the bacteria don’t have time to multiply enough to cause problems. (mmm…steak tartare…)
BUT that’s not all. I’ve always been partial to juicier kinds of burgers, and at a cookout I was supervising (nominally) several years ago, I created a bunch of juicy, technically slightly underdone hamburgers. This was by everyone else’s approval, mind you - I wasn’t trying to poison anyone. One person got sick from the burgers, out of the ten or so of us who ate them. We all ate identical amounts of bacteria, but we weren’t all affected. Apparently, different people have different reactions to food-borne bacteria. A physician acquaintance of mine confirms this, maintaining it’s extremely hard to prove a restaurant responsible for food poisoning because so often, it’s the individual who got sick whose gastrointestinal system is at fault for not being able to tolerate “normal” bacteria counts, rather than the restaurant for serving tainted food. Plus, there’s no way to really prove it either way unless more than three or four people get sick.
So given that, I think if you’re not prone to getting sick from food, grind your own hamburger and eat all the rare burgers you want.
The same concept probably applies to household bacteria, too, in that some people will just always be more sensitive to and affected by them. Natural selection at work
I’m hung up on the underwear/laundry thing. I read that you can microwave a kitchen sponge for one minute to kill any bacteria it might be housing, so, does that hold true for skivvies? Can you nuke them to kill fecal bacteria and then happily go ahead and wash all of your whites together?? As unappealing as the idea of this may seem, it’s not any worse than the alternative. Besides, wouldn’t bacteria on one garment just as likely spread to other laundry in the hamper making separate loads pointles??
Ok, I just have to say that the idea of microwaving your underwear is just gross. Normally I am not one to be easily disgusted, but that just… ew.
Also, since microwaves heat unevenly, couldn’t some bacteria conceivably be transferred to the interior walls of the microwave, and then be passed on to food? Wouldn’t you end up with nasty strains of microwave-resistant panty bacteria?
On undergoing plumbing trauma last year, I did a bit of online research into toilet sloth. According to various plumbing sites, putting those cleaning tablets into your toilet is one of the worst things you can do to it-- if it’s the chlorine type, it corrodes the rubber gaskets inside, and if it’s the blue dye kind, it creates a high-density soup at the bottom of the tank that makes for sluggish flushes.
I opt for the “better immune response through being a pig” option, myself. The only disadvantage is that if you do get stomach flu, you end up looking at a lot more grime under the toilet rim.
Another (and my final) word on the underwear/laundry thing: sunlight is free! Plus, think of all the great exercise (weight lifting and stretching both come to mind) you’ll get from lugging your clothes in and out to and from a clothesline. Seems to me the exercise would also benefit your immune system.
I definitly side with the everthing in moderation crowd. Some bacteria and viral exposure is a good thing. Additionally as a single male I believe in spreading the crude around every so often, at least it makes room for fresh microbs. I was a little dissapointed that there was no mention of the benifits of hand washing and using just plain old soap. Most health professionals that I know feel this is the best defense, yet from personal observation this practice is seldom employed in public restrooms. If we were to follow Prof. Gerba’s advice we should consider washing our backsides with chlorine bleach. I’ll take my chances…
All this talk about fecal bacteria has got me thinking about oral sex. I mean, why should I worry about disinfecting my underwear when I’m putting my mouth at the one spot you’d think would be most contaminated? I do this fairly frequently (the oral sex, not the disinfecting), and have yet to get sick from it. As far as I know, at least. I’m sure I’d stop if my partner wasn’t reasonably clean and healthy. Are the bacteria in a toilet plume somehow more dangerous than something that’s crawling around on my girlfriend?
Just the sort of scatological detail I like to see! Two points:
I remember seeing something similar some years ago, only that it was suggested that leaving the lid DOWN actually increased the aerosol effect, due to the venturi effect between the lid and the curved toilet seat…
The other is that we become immune to the crud that’s around us every day. Killing it all off by using massive amounts of chemical warefare just reduces our exposure to “natural” pathogens and lays us open to infection. Doctors are becoming concerned by the increase in diseases like asthma, which they think are due to a lack of contact with everyday bacteria and viruses. (This is the “gyppy tummy” effect - you always suffer illness when travelling abroad, their bugs are different to those back home!
Another issue - why keep meat cutting boards separate from veggi? If the meat one is contaminated, then you’re going to get sick from the meat, right? Or are we just trying to give an extra measure of protection to the vegetarians among us?
sford - Because meat is cooked to a much higher temperature (160 F) than veggies. That temp kills the bacteria, whether it came from the meat or the cutting board. So unless you’re overcooking the crap out of your veggies, and using a veggie thermometer to ensure 160 F throuhgout, a separate cutting board is a must.
Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you will suck forever.
Unfortunately I can’t cite the source, but I’m not so sure about making sure your toothbrush is back in the medicine cabinet after use. I remember hearing that keeping your toothbrush in an enclosed, dark place (like a medicine cabinet) made it a great place for the bacteria you just removed from your mouth to keep multiplying.
I think I heard this as part of an exhortation to “air out” your toothbrush by keeping it on a rack or something else outside the medicine cabinet, especially to keep yourself from getting sick by re-using the toothbrush you used when you were sick yesterday, etc.
Anyone?
Have we all lost all sense of proportion and common sense? Are people keeling over after brushing their teeth?
Sure, I can believe there are measureable numbers of organisms deposited thruout the bathroom. But there are many possible reasons we’re not all dead: (Note, I’m not a bacteriologist, these are just common sense):
(1) “Measureable” may mean 10 per square cm.
But it may take thousands per square cm to be a self-sustaining population.
(2) They may land on your toothbrush, but can they multiply or even survive when out of the dark, cool water? A dry, clean toothbrush out in the open air and light doesnt sound like a good environment for little critters.
(3) Much food poisoning is due to the waste products of the bacteria, not the bacteria themselves. So if there’s no food to eat on your toothbrush, the bacteria are not going to thrive and excrete. Ergo, no waste products.
(4) We are most likely getting our own or our family’s e. coli back. Maybe we have an extra bit of tolerance for our own particular strain of e. coli?
Lots of outs. In any case, I try to eat lunch at the local bagel place patronized by our State Commissioner of Health. If it’s ok for him, it’s probably clean enough for me.
Much as I hate to sound smug, I knew this already. Read it in The Secret House by David Bodanis published in 1986. ISBN 0-671-60032-x.
Dr. Fidelius
Charlatan and Font of Questionable Knowledge
Associate Curator Anomalous Paleontology, Miskatonic University
You raise a valid point. Rather than dash off a reply I’ll take this up in a followup column.
Cecil: Just read your column on bathroom surfaces being contaminated
every time someone flushes the toilet (and related issues), and let me
tell you, as a sufferer from Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD), I
found it both gratifying and horrifying. These are the kinds of things
that OCDs can’t stop thinking about, and spend huge amounts of energy
trying to deal with.
Here’s a similar question, and I’m just wondering if anyone has ever
investigated it. Men (I’m one myself, so I know) tend to spray urine
around when they urinate. The straight stream urination is the
exception, not the rule. I realized a few years ago that I was likely to
get urine on my shoes and/or pants every time I urinated standing up. I
knew this was true because I would sometimes get up in the night and
urinate standing up while naked, and I could feel the stuff getting on
my legs.
This being the case, it seems to me that most men’s pants are
contaminated with urine most of the time, since most men urinate
standing up every time and they do so several times a day. Furthermore,
anything they put on their lap (including their hands) is likely to be
contaminated, too. Not to mention the floor of any men’s room floor.
Yes Hmooney, but there is one big difference between fecal and urine contamination. There are no diseases a person can catch from contact with the urine of a healthy person. Urine is very sterile, no bacteria should be present in a person’s urine.
That being said, I have to thank you for bringing this up. She (Who Must Be Obeyed) already thinks I am obsessive about cleanliness, now She will have to deal with my trousers going to the cleaners after being worn only once…
Dr. Fidelius
Charlatan and Font of Questionable Knowledge
Associate Curator Anomalous Paleontology, Miskatonic University
**Dear God, the germophobes are going to send us all to an early grave!!!<\b>
The extreme overreactions by the Teeming Millions (spare a few logical one such as myself) have illustated why there is such a medical disaster in the making. Now some of my assertions are a bit off topic, but they reflect a common theme.
This overpowering fear of a few stray fecal bacteria (wait 'till they hear how many live in your colon) and such on our tooth brush and sponge and the like are more destructive than simply coping with them. This attitude is the driving force behind the propagation of antibiotic resistant bacteria (an interesting article on the failure of the medical community in this war is in this months Popular Science). Off topic from the same mag was a article that claimed there are too few smells in an American home today. Cleaners and air fresheners kill all smells good and bad, and the lack of smells create a type of olfactory blindfold which creates emotional distress. Ironically, the most missed smells are those found in fresh outdoor air.
We strive to live in such sterile environments we not only atrophy our immune systems, but we encourage the success of hardy resistant bacteria who no longer have any less dangerous to compete with to thrive. The misuse of antibiotics coupled with the availablity of bacteria killing chemicals in common hand soaps and stuff make the opportunity for resistant bacteria to randomly develop. One overriding fact is that the bulk of the most dangerous bacterial infections are contracted in a hospital. While partly due to the abundance of sick people, also because there is so little competing common (the ones our body copes with easily) bacteria for the resourses to thrive.
Cecil, I would like to hear you set this straight and temper your “toliet warfare” article with some real comparative facts to put things in perspective.
Don’t even get me started on the need to allow children to safely develop their own immune systems. If I remember correctly you wrote a column describing a cause of the spread of a tuberculosis epidemic (could be a different illness) due to the quick implememtation of quality sewage and street sanitation in major cities. The children for years played in relatively filthy streets and developed natural resistance to it, but then once the children were no longer exposed they contracted the disease as adults where it was much more deadly. I see striking similarities to that drastic change to the one we have encountered in our households today.
The prevalence of asthma, and allergies may be related to this lack of exposure, and our increasingly sedentary and indoor lives.
The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The distinction is
yours to draw…
Omniscient; BAG
Sorry about the bold, i used the wrong slash in my closing command. Only the first line was intended to be bold, as you may have deduced.
[[The straight stream urination is the
exception, not the rule. ]]
I know that to err is human and all, but can this really be true. Not in my house! Hey, put a little something into it!