Searching the SDMB for “Mike Tyson” turned up 177 hits. In the past year, I didn’t see any topics that were close enough to what I am about to ask. I didn’t look further as digging up old topics is frowned upon. Also, I don’t think this has a definitive answer, so I am posting it here, rather than in GQ. Here goes…
For some time I have been engaged in a discussion with my friends on whether or not Mike Tyson is the toughest guy around. I maintain that he is not. By a long shot. I am nearly alone in this belief.
I say that he is definitely one tough mother. However, I think that there must be dozens, even hundreds of guys out there that could put him down rather easily.
Think of your average prison. I bet each prison in the land has 1 or 2 bad-ass mofos that have spent the last 20+ years of their life working out every single day. When they fight, its bare-knuckled and its usually for their life, not a belt.
My friends argue that Mike has trained in gyms and knows boxing techniques that these other men do not. I say, irrelevant. The guys in prison may not be trained to duck or dodge a punch. Rather, they take the punch and keep coming. My friends argue that Mike can take a punch, too. I say, how many? When he’s not training, hes getting soft in his limos and mansions. The guys in jail don’t have time to get soft.
I guess you could argue this for any activity/sport. Is Jordan the best ballplayer or is there some guy in the bronx who never got the opportunities that Mike, but could still take him to the hole. However, in this particular case, I’m arguing specifically about boxing and Mike Tyson.
Thoughts?
Please don’t let this degenerate into a “I hate Tyson becasue…” thread.
Look no further than that Ultimate Tough Man Competition or whatever it’s called where they get in a caged pit and anything goes. If you punt Mike’s nuts 40 yards, he’s not getting back up.
I’ve always figured that it’s pretty much impossible to be “the toughest guy around” because if Person C beats person A who has beaten person B, that doesn’t necessarily mean that person C can beat person B. Get it?
I doubt any one man could beat everybody else.
Tyson would most likely get his ass kicked by many high level martial artists. Different tactics and techniques that he wouldn’t be used to. I also think you could go to just about any federal prison and find a couple guys that could go toe to toe with him for the reasons you state. For that matter, several current heavyweight boxers could kick his ass as well, seeing as his skills have eroded so much.
I also second Cisco’s thoughts that it’s pretty much impossible to say who is the “toughest” of all. All someone has to do is have a good day and get a “lucky” punch in and suddenly they’re the baddest mofo around.
He’s not so tough. All you have to do is dodge his punches for the first 1 minute 30 seconds… then he’s a lot easier. Also don’t forget to press “select” between rounds if you need extra health.
I doubt a huge crowd of folk - either martial artists or brawlers, could have easily handled Iron Mike in his prime. Boxing IS a very effective martial art - just about as good as it comes in terms of hand speed and power, and footwork.
Tyson was incredibly strong, fast, and elusive. He wouldn’t have to hit you a whole bunch of times to inflict some serious damage.
Oh - and if you think a brawler - no matter how tough - can easily stand up against an accomplished boxer - well, apparently you have never tried to do it.
Other point that makes boxers extremely tough opponents. They do a major part of their training live against a resisting opponent (rather than forms, kata, breaking boards, etc.), and their training consists in large part of absorbing tremendous abuse.
Yes, some other martial arts do the same, such as Muay Thai. But not all or - in my experience - most.
Oaktree and Mason are very tough fellas. But it wouldn’t take Tyson - or even a heavyweight or a boxer of world champion caliber - to take them to school.
You’ll end up looking at folk like Tank Abbott and Tex Cobb. Tough guys who could absorb (and mete out) tons of hurt. But that wasn’t enough for them to win much of anything in their chosen areas.
It is an amazing experience the first time you get in the ring with a boxer. Even if you think you are tough. Even if you outweigh them considerably. Even if you are reasonably accomplished at another martial art. They are just incredibly hard to hit, and they hit you incredibly hard and fast.
When I first started watch the Ultimate Fighting events I seriously wondered how Mike Tyson would do. And I’ve come to the conclusion that we is a tough boxer and all around scrapper but he wouldn’t last in a no holds barred fight with someone just as fierce but skilled in other areas.
If you watch any of the Ultimate Fighting Championship events from the last 10 years you will see a consistent pattern of wrestlers and grapplers kicking everyones a$$. Those martial artists that are successful in UFC fights have very strong skills on the ground. I’ve seen countless experts with an endless array of martial arts accomplishments get thrown on the ground and beaten senseless while being crumpled up in a little ball.
Real world fights seldom stay on two feet and an expert in wrestling (Greco Roman or real world- Not the WWF/WWE stuff) or grappling will absolutely manhandle a boxer or upright martial artist. If you have seen real world fights you know that they involve wrestling or grappling very quickly with very little conventional boxing or kickboxing style.
Tyson would get reamed by the better UFC fighters in a no-holds barred fight.
Synthesis raises an interesting point and it’s something I’ve wondered about. Grapplers often say that their form is superior in a real world fight because most real world fights turn out to be on-the-ground wrestling competitions.
Fair point but how often do you see a real world fight involving a “stand-up” martial artist? I used to do karate and I was able to deliver a fast powerful side kick to the head pretty fast. If attacked that would probably be what I would have done.
If done correctly then that would be a KO (there’s no defence to a properly executed side-kick). So the grappler never would have got near enough to take me down (theoretically).
I’m a bit sceptical of Ultimate Fighting because stand-up martial artists aren’t allowed to do their art properly (people would get killed) whereas grapplers aren’t so restrained. So naturally grapplers would tend to win. But in a real fight, the stand-up martial artist wouldn’t have to hold back.
Re Tyson. I think he’d take most cons (even tough ones) because they wouldn’t have his technique. Gimme technique over power any day - and Tyson had both. His only weakness is that he’s a big guy and big guys tire quickly. I think a middleweight boxer would beat a heavyweight in a real fight simply by dodging and waiting for the big guy to tire.
(I hasten to add I never had to use martial arts because I haven’t been in a fight since I was about 8. I don’t “do” fighting, it’s not part of my repertoire. I’d always rather sweettalk my way out of a fight or, failing that, run away).
You’ve boxed Dinsdale?
How does one go about doing this?
Do they have associations at local gyms or something?
I’ve always wanted to try. Sorry for the hijack.
Didn’t mean to jump out of my own thread. I’ve been following along.
I think that technique is overrated. Some have said that a brawler would lose to a pro boxer, but I disagree. I think that “toughness” and heart and motivation has a lot more to do with it than bobbing and weaving.
Has anyone heard any RL stories of when Tyson was in jail? Was he respected? I would guess that every wanna-be boxer in there with him would want a shot at the “champ”. Or maybe, everyone gave him respect for…whatever reason.
Navy Seals are mentally tough but they aren’t usually large, strapping and powerful men. Their physical and mental endurance is superior. Even so, Navy SEALS don’t always fare well outside of their focus: executing missions and terminating people as needed with weapons and high tech devices.
The ECOCHALLENGE endurance race series has often had a Navy SEAL team as an entrant and they haven’t faired well at all primarily because it is outside of their tight focus and training.
I wouldn’t want to tangle with a Navy Seal in hand to hand combat, but I personally don’t think their unarmed fighting skills makes them what they are.
I’m not sure why people think the martial artists are contrained in the UFC fights. More rules have been added, but the UFC fights from 5 years and back had only a few rules (fishooking the month, eye gouging, and maybe another rule). Regardless of someone’s upright skill, I still can’t see how a fight could remain upright unless the martial artists disabled his opponent really quickly. Which would be hard to do since we are talking about another person who is “super tough”.