Jane’s apparently still friends with plenty of people that knew her as John. It does border on Orwellian to expect all those people to magically erase from their minds that Jane was once John. It’s going to come up in normal human interaction. Gossip is part of normal human interaction. If Jane can’t deal with that reality, she has more problems than being born in the wrong gender.
There is a difference between “eras[ing] from their mind that Jane was once John” and fucking telling random people about it. There is nothing Orwellian about expecting people to mind their own business.
And “plenty of people?” the anecdote as related is what, 2, maybe three people, with a larger group around them. How dare Jane keep any ties or relationships intact through her transition! the nerve of some people!
Fine, fine. I’m being doubleplusungood, I get it.
It never fails to boggle my mind that people think the concept of transgender releases them from the regular societal expectation that you call someone by the name they tell you to call them by and not whatever you want.
It rather sounds like you don’t, in fact, get it.
If Jane is going to continue associating with friends and associates that know her history, she should be prepared for the possibility that they could reveal any number of things that past associations have made common knowledge. If Jane has a problem with this, Jane should consider counseling or a drastic life-style change.
No, you’re just being doubleplusunsmart, probably doubleplusonpurpose. There’s no reason to conflate a judgment that saying certain things is rude or potentially harmful with an Orwellian world in which free thought is punished, except maybe to recast outspoken bigots or ignorant blatherskites as victims.
And it might be helpful for folks who are frightened by the prospect of being forced to erase from their minds the fact that Jane was once John to try to achieve this realization: Jane was never John. Jane was Jane. Always. That was the problem which required a remedy.
So that means it’s okay to tell everyone Jane was molested when she was a child? Or the time she peed her pants in third grade? Or the fact that her husband ran off with a woman half his age?
How about just not broadcasting your friends’ personal business all over the place? If Jane wants people to know, she’ll tell them.
Well, of course, if she didnt want everyone to know, she should have faked her death, relocated to a new state, and never develop new confidantes.
To believe otherwise is just trying to retcon the past, because we have an absolute duty to broadcast everything we know about everyone we know to everyone we meet. To not do so would be positively doubleplusungood.
I’m not even going to lie and pretend it’s easy. I’ve had trans friends who presented to me as one gender when I first met them, later evolve in their own understanding of their identity, and it’s difficult to wrap your mind around the whole experience if you’re cisgender. One friend presented as male, dresses most days like a hipster lumberjack but does burlesque in women’s lingerie and prefers the pronoun “they.” I have to constantly check myself for not using “he.” It’s amazing to me how ingrained this concept is in so many of us.
To use an utterly ridiculous example, I got a kitten and named her “Mina” (short for Abomination.) I later found out she was a boy cat. I have prided myself on being open minded about gender identity so it blew my mind how much difficulty I had with the idea that my cat was a boy all along. It was the same damned cat but he suddenly seemed different. I wanted to change the nickname to something masculine and my husband told me not to put him in the genderbox. We kept the nickname Mina, but now our friends and family can’t keep his gender straight.
My point is, it’s a hard concept for even the most well-meaning, and faux pas are probably inevitable. That is not to minimize how shitty it would be to experience or even how potentially dangerous. We, as in allies of trans people, need to step up our game, to tolerate this little bit of discomfort so that the people we care about don’t have to suffer a lot more.
Of course you should tell her. And it would not be passing on hurtful gossip.
Also, stop hanging around losers who gossip about people behind their back.
Except Jane was given the name John by Jane’s parents and John was what was written on Jane’s birth certificate. To deny that cold, hard fact is exactly what I’m talking about when I say retconning history. To go back to the earlier mention of Hillary Clinton, can you say that she was never Rodham?
I’m not opposed to trans rights. I think trans people have every right to live how they choose, marry who they choose, use whatever bathroom they choose, and be as safe as anyone else. But none of that includes an ability to edit history.
Nobody is suggesting history be edited. That is a straw man. I don’t want everyone I hang out with to know about my shitty childhood, but that doesn’t mean I’m pretending it didn’t happen. You’re basically saying nobody has a right to privacy about anything. I don’t understand that mentality at all.
Seriously with this? This is not even hard:
“Hey, what was on Jane’s birth certificate, male or female?”
“Sorry, you’ll have to ask her”
“Hey, I heard Jane used to be John, is that true?”
“Sorry, you’ll have to ask her”
“Hey, I heard there is a woman around that used to be a man!”
“Oh yeah? Well, I have to get going, see ya!”
None of that is “editing history”
Wait, Darren, are you suggesting that trans people shouldn’t change official documentation? Is that what all this retcon nonsense is about? because there is no conceivable way that failing to disclose that someone transitioned could be considered altering history. It’s just keeping one’s mouth shut. So is your objection really to altering the documentation that legally identifies a person? Is that the comparison you are trying to make to altered Soviet photographs?
Has Jane made any indication of what level of detail is appropriate, either at transition time or subsequently? For all we know, it be anything from “don’t ever mention it to anyone, ever” to “don’t ask, don’t tell, don’t pursue” up to “what do I care who knows?”
I don’t know if this is a topic that should be avoided, or is absolutely taboo, or just another fact about someone’s background, or something that should be shared only with intimates, or something else, so I don’t know what the default ought to be.
Regards,
Shodan
Current documentation is fine to change. Driver’s license? Mortgage agreement? Car lease? That’s fine. Go back and change your birth certificate? That’s fraud. You are entitled to a different future, but not to a different past.
I’m talking about the people who knew someone before they transitioned being expected to play along with acting like they had never transitioned and always been as they present now. It is trying to force them into a social contract that they never signed up for.
(Just as an aside, as far as I know, I have never known or met a trans person in real life–all my exposure is second-hand through the media.)
I haven’t read all the responses in this thread, so hopefully I’m not redundant. But I see the gaffe as being similar to gratuitously bringing up any detail about someone that is very personal and touchy, in a setting that doesn’t lend itself to that type of casual disclosure.
Imagine saying, “I’ve known Jane since before she got that nose of hers fixed.” Even it everyone knew about Jane’s rhinoplasty, dropping this into conversation would be cringey.
Let me check with cousin Michelle, who clearly speaks for all trans persons as she has not been cousin Michael for nearly forty years.
Does it somehow matter what sex is stated on your birth certificate?
Do you feel the same way about someone who is a closeted gay person? That you should be free to tell anyone that person is gay?
Can you give an example of that? Because there aren’t any in this thread.
What do you think of the other examples being discussed here? Is someone who knew a woman when she was pregnant entitled to tell everyone she had a miscarriage or an abortion? Is it unfair of me to expect my own past not to be broadcast on CNN? What if you’re a former alcoholic? What if your wife killed herself? Is not mentioning those painful issues in casual company retconning the past? Where do you draw the line with other personal things and why is gender identity any different?