I find it a bit contrived to separate the two as if there aren’t many drag queens who come to identify as trans women; & a bit unfortunate as the move to deny drag queens experience real bigotry and oppression often ends up sounding a bit like respectability politics.
It wasn’t clear. You said we non-CD and non-TG have no say in the “battle”. It’s wrong, unless I can tell you that you shouldn’t concern yourself with “our” battles (whatever htey may be) cuz you’re not one of us. I mean, it’s, directly no skin off my nose the actual result of that specific topic, but what bothers me is the concept that “we” have no say.
You do realize that as soon as you put “women” in scare quotes, you tipped your hand, right?
I agree with this, like in a traditional British panto, where the cross-dressed person is typically an old man who is having ten different kinds of fun with the role.
Would you mind taking the time to compare the bigotry and oppression that drag queens experience, relative to transgender persons? Take all the time you need. Then could you explain why you equate a voluntary activity with one which is a fundamental sense of gender identity.
That was overly harsh on my part, and I apologize.
I can see that with some performances.
I appreciate drag. I don’t find the humor funny but I do appreciate the artistry, and I’ve been moved to tears by a drag performer’s heartfelt singing performance.
But what is Una supposed to say? I’ve seen her be infinitely patient with people on these boards, explaining and re-explaining concepts a thousand times, occasionally to the same people. And yet they won’t understand. Just look above you. When she tried to use personal experience to highlight the differences, how much they hurt and what kind of damage they do, this was the immediate response…
So, if someone can behave like that immediately, you don’t think the frustration ever gets to her and she just throws up her hands and says “Leave this kind of complicated stuff to the folks who actually live it!”??
I swear, after reading threads like this, I can 100% understand why Eve left. This is one “good fight” that, if I was transgendered, I wouldn’t have the heart to keep trying to best when faced with such an uphill climb in one instance, and willful ignorance in the other. Sheesh.
This. It reminds me of people who will swear up and down that someone isn’t really that depressed because they themselves have felt a little blue before and weren’t suicidal. Just get over it.
If you don’t understand a concept is severe as you think, perhaps it’s because you’ve never really walked mile in the other person’s shoes.
Una, I think you’re coming off as a bit overly harsh throughout this thread. I’m sure you’ve explained this many times, but most people reading this thread are going to be hearing about this issue for the first time (as I am). Your “hey, not your business” attitude is certainly offputting to those of us who make an effort to be sensitive to LGBT issues, and even if some of the posters in this thread aren’t making (or don’t make) that effort I think it’s unfair to assume it of others.
I’ve apologized twice in this thread. That’s twice more than most people do on this message board in any thread where there is an argument or attitude taken by someone.
If it does no good to apologize, then I don’t know what else to add at this point.
I agree. Once you say you are offended by those terms we should stop using them. That’s all I need to know. I dont even need to know your justification, just that you personally , are offended by those terms. Absolutely. I no longer do. *Perhaps you could reciprocate? *
A basic problem is there seems to be an overall equating of a voluntary performance art activity with a fundamental gender identity and expression evinced by persons who may very well be classified as a milder form of intersex, given the trends of brain functional MRI studies.
I’m transgender activist 24/7. My weekend plans? Help a transgender person who is out of work, do my radio show on trans advocacy, attend a private transgender party to see if I can have some fun and help folks out, continue trying to set up my 501c(3), check on a once-homeless transwoman I paid for housing for, and research an article on transgender legal status of employee benefits. Unlike the vast majority of transgender persons who (rightfully) just want to quietly live their lives and submerge into living and loving and just being happy, I chose not to do that. Every day of the week I’m working in this area, it’s not a hobby for me, and so yes I take it seriously. It’s easy for someone to think “jeeze, why are you getting so upset about this?” when they aren’t out there facing what I’m facing. So I use my examples to try to give some light as to why I am “always on” when this topic comes up.
Sometimes I regret that choice. No one who meets me in a social or professional context knows I’m trans until I tell them. I could have gone stealth had I wanted to. Sometimes, like right this minute, I’m very, very tired. But I get knocked down, and I get up again, like in that stupid song.
As far as the slurs, I really do understand why most non-transgender persons can shrug their shoulders at them or wonder “what’s the big deal.” If someone walks up to be and calls me a “fucking nigger,” I’m going to look around, be pretty damn confused, and then wonder who the asshole is talking to. What I’m not going to experience is the visceral impact to the gut, the mix of fear and demoralization, and the feeling like all the wind has been taken out of my sails that a person of color will have.
Yes, a hundred times this. The willful ignorance and utter lack of empathy is difficult for a loved one of a trans girl to take.
So you did. I take back my comment.
Are you seriously trying to compare the use of the word “cisgender” to the experiences Una just described?
Why, yes, he is. Astonishing, isn’t it?
Indeed, just the opposite. “Once you say you are offended by those terms we should stop using them. That’s all I need to know.* I dont even need to know your justification, just that you personally , are offended by those terms.* Absolutely. I no longer do.”
What a stupid fucking comment. I mean, really.
Well, Richard, as a cisgender white male (I thin), how *does *the trans/drag divide compare with Trump leading the GOP primaries, humor-wise?
Well, Una, I appreciate what you do and how much you fight to educate. I can’t imagine how incredibly difficult a battle that must be at times, but I just wanted you to know that you’ve positively effected me and I’ve learned more about transgender issues via your teaching than I ever would’ve done without them. And I seriously doubt I’m the only one. You are a testament to those you try to help and a treasure to this community. Thank you for all you do and I hope this issue finds a happy and peaceful resolution.
There are so many things to love about the comment, but the thing I like most is the idea that (white?) cisgender is to transgender as liberals are to the GOP. A lovely idea, isn’t it?
How would you have it? "Once you say you are offended by those terms we should stop using them. That’s all I need to know. I don’t even need to know your justification, just that you personally , are offended by those terms. "
Or- “prove by horror stories that the term has been used in such a way we should find it offensive- we’re not going to take your word for it, we need evidence.”