Then what are you basing your opinions on when it comes to this subject?
I’m sorry, but how could you possibly know a two-year old was gay?
At that particular time there wasn’t much discussion on transgender and some of us tended to lump that together with gay. He was extremely feminine from the very beginning. Today I would probably think he was transgender however as far as I now he grew up to be gay and if he is transgender he hasn’t come out. He does assume the female roll in his relationship.
The “Female roll”? What, pray tell, is the “female roll”?
But what does “extremely feminine” have to do with being gay? And how does a 2 year old act “extremely feminine” anyway?
Thats going back like 48 years so I don’t remember the details but I did get it right. I see what you are saying about associating femininity with gayness. We usually had 1 or 2 kids in our class that we refereed to as sissies. I don’t remember anyone ever being mean to them. They were usually nerdy kids and good students. A very large percentage of them did grow up to be gay males. I never thought of them as feminine but neither were they very masculine.
Well this thread won’t be awful at all, will it?
And I believe some parents drown their kids in the bathtub because god told them to. If that sounds any less bizarre and awful than what you just said, your priors are off.
This is preposterous! You cannot tell shit about a two-year-old. Between this and whatever point he was trying to make about “animals playing animal games”, Honey badger sounds to me like he’s posting drunk.
You claim that y’all called some children “sissy”, but were never mean to them, and you also claimed to keep track of them through the years and can tell us that a large percentage of them turned out gay? The former is just nonsense, and the latter comes damn close to the term “stalking”.
We refereed to them as sissies, not called them sissies. I have lived in the same city my entire life, I went to school with many of the same kids for 12 years and as an adult I attend the class reunions every 5 years. So I do keep up with them.
Did you happen to keep track of those that you didn’t call sissies behind their backs to see how many of them turned out to be gay?
Do you understand now that referring to them as sissies was actually mean, even if you only did it behind their back? Do you understand that what you perceive as feminine characteristics doesn’t mean a boy is gay or transgender?
I understand that gender roles and our understanding of gays and transgender people are much different now than when you grew up. It’s difficult to change your viewpoint. But you now have the opportunity to be accepting of new information and challenge some of the things you believe in.
You can sit there and argue that you know how parents should treat a transgender child, while the basis for your expertise on the subject is apparently that you correctly guessed a two-year old was gay. Or you can take the time to learn something about the issue before making uneducated comments like “parents do it to be cool.”
I did indeed read the article, and I KNOW that’s the case with any medication – where did I say it wasn’t? But some people seem to think it’s a foregone conclusion that a child will be put on meds, that’s all. I would hate to see a person develop serious bone diseases or something like that – (I’d say the same goddamned thing if it were say, anti-depressant.)
It has nothing to do with detransitioning.
Maybe I spend too much time on Tumblr -there are a HELL of a lot of stereotypes out there. That if you do X or Y you MUST be trans. The claims that you don’t need dysphoria to be trans. People flipping out at “gender reveal parties”. (Seriously, I have seen all of this stuff – maybe it’s like people who enjoy diagnosing themselves with mental illnesses or whatever, or rad fems who claim you can choose to be gay?)
It’s kind of like right now we see the OP saying, “oh, my nephew does this, he’s so obviously gay?” That doesn’t mean someone’s being pushed to be trans – just that they’re being judged as such. (Just like, again, if you do X, that must mean you’re gay.)
Granted, it’s the source, but hang out there some time and you’ll see what I mean. I mostly go on hockey blogs, but it crops up. Hell, remember this thread? You evven had trans people saying, “yeah, that’s a wee bit much.”
That’s very sad – it’s not quite as bad as David Rhymer, but it’s up there.
And isn’t that how it works in Iran? LGB people are often given the choice between jail or gender reasignment surgery. I remember hearing someone talking about how wonderfully progressive Iran was as regards to trans people and I was like, are you fucking kidding me?
It’s a complex issue, and I’m simply saying you can’t just point a finger at a person and say, “this makes you transphobic!”
I don’t claim to have all the answers.
AFAIK, my transgendered classmate is not on Facebook, but I’ve seen a few classmates there who are now openly LGBT. Only one of them was a shock to me, and it was a boy who was not a friend of mine, but he was in my social circle, and yeah, the “Mr. and Mr.” cake topper and all these pictures of him with his husband had me going :eek: .
Trust me - no one WANTS for their child to have to go through the stigma and issues associated with being trans. Or if people do, they are really, really horrible people.
What they want is for their children to be well adjusted and happy. And if they suspect that the gender assigned at birth for their kid was not correct, they know that the chances their child will be well adjusted and happy as a grown up are pretty dismal - and that its likely to be a long hard journey to reach any sort of well adjusted and happy…and the sooner that is corrected, the easier it will be. Easiest if its pre-puberty.
But, of course, that carries its own issues. Gender is really a social construct - and it can be difficult to tell if a kid just isn’t gender binary - which is what a lot of young people are coming out as - they don’t need gender reassignment surgery or hormones - they just want to be able to be people and not be restricted by the social constructs around gender. “You must like makeup” “You must like sports” “You must like girls” “You must be bad at math.” There are millions of those messages sent to them that they reject - by just rejecting society’s gender assignment.
And that’s get back to why, if a parent suspects their child is not gender-conforming/gay/whatever it is important for PROFESSIONALS to be involved. What I dread is people, even well-intentioned people, going the do-it-yourself route and ordering drugs off the internet, skipping therapy, using useless therapies, etc. I suspect that is very rare, but I’ve heard of at least one case of DIY gender reassignment and while, from what I read, it wasn’t a complete disaster it wasn’t well handled and didn’t really solve many of the associated problems. Add in ordering hormones on line that turned out to not be pure, consistent, or quite what was advertised… :rolleyes:
Kids who aren’t quite normal, that is, mainstream, in regards to gender identity would benefit from counseling by professionals and professional evaluations, and if treatment of any sort is then determined to be a good course of action that, too, should be under the supervision of actual trained professionals. It won’t always require pharmaceuticals or surgery, but if it does, those should be obtained from legitimate sources. NO ONE should be routed to surgery without careful consideration - it should be just as OK for someone who is non-standard gender to skip genital surgery as to get it, for whatever reason that might be. This ciswoman is perfectly OK with a transwoman undergoing all manner of treatment but skipping the genital surgery if she chooses to skip it because, frankly, there is far too much obsession about the genitalia of other people. The only time it matters is if you’re planning to have sex with the person in question, otherwise, it’s nobody’s damn business. How the hell did it become a meme that someone is diagnosed as transgender on Friday and goes under the knife on Monday? It doesn’t happen that way. I’m no expert, I’ve just met a few transfolk both on line and in real life and for every single one of them it was YEARS between transitioning socially and getting “bottom surgery”, if they ever did. Hey, whatever ever works best for them.
That is also why having gender dysphoria treatment available through either national health coverage or some sort of insurance is so important - so people can get real care to determine the best course for them. If desperate folks are locked out of the legitimate health care systems (whether through expense, bias, or gatekeepers) they’ll resort to desperate DIY - which can have terrible consequences ranging from the wrong treatment for that person to some pretty horrible medical problems from misuse of drugs or bad surgery.
But getting back to the kids - gender reassignment pre-puberty seems to consist mainly of a change of pronouns, clothing/hair choices, and at near-puberty maybe puberty blockers. Kids are not put on hormones and they don’t get surgery for this, that comes later. For kids, especially, it’s ALL reversible.
I’ve heard of a couple of trans teens who ordered drugs off the internet but never parents. Not that it couldn’t happen.
Puberty blockers aren’t actually started until puberty has begun.
I thought people had to live as their preferred gender for at least a year, and preferably two years, before undergoing any kind of surgery.
The case happened in Britain. I wasn’t entirely clear if the kid ordered them or the parents, but the parents said they didn’t have the money for treatment by doctors and thus it was DIY. I have no idea is gender dysphoria treatment is on the NHS or not - it would not surprise me if all sorts of, shall we say, “issues” were at play there and not just gender dysphoria or the kid.
That’s if you have competent medical professionals involved. If someone is going about it DIY who knows?
Gender is not entirely a social construct. Gender roles are a social construct, but internal gender is not. The gender you assign yourself may be influenced by the gender you are assigned from the outside, but that’s not the be-all-end-all. If it were, then trans people couldn’t exist.
I bring this up because what you’ve described is not what non-binary means. It is not someone who identifies as a woman but doesn’t like makeup, or someone who identifies as a man but isn’t into sports. (Hell, I’d be non-binary if that were the case.) It’s not about the external. It’s about the internal, same as for trans men and trans women. It is a sort of gender dysphoria from both sides, one where “girl who doesn’t like girly things” is not sufficient.
That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if many kids don’t get this. Because we use the same terms for both internal and external, and we just don’t tend to sit them down and explain how all these things work. We just kinda leave them to figure it out on their own while giving mixed messages. I’d be concerned this would lead people to think the whole thing is a phase, rather than just kids who hadn’t discovered who they are yet.
I mean, that same thing did happen when gay people would come out–people thought they’d been “converted.”