Theres probably no subject that hasn’t been discussed here, so forgive me if theres already one on this subject.
I recently went to a PFLAG meeting and one of the guests mentioned their 3 year old grandchild, and said they were transgender, and the parents are being supportive.
I am thinking 3 is too young to decide something like this, isn’t it? When I was 3, I used to pretend I was a dog sometimes.
Should children this young be guided to this decision, which they could possibly regret?
can you know that young?
And why is there such a sudden flux of transgenders? When I was little, there were hardly any. I don’t think its because they were, and didn’t speak out, I think its just happening all of a sudden. Is it something in the water/
I’m gonna take your post seriously because I know IRL people who basically believe what you’ve laid out here. But it is worth noting that your post is pretty offensive and doesn’t read like a genuine effort to learn given your comparison of gender identity to human identity and your suggestion that there is “something in the water.”
On “the sudden influx”: People who are transgender who grew up in earlier decades often weren’t familiar with the concept of being transgender. Sometimes they recognized that they were gender non-conforming and often identified themselves as gay or lesbian. Sometimes they just felt “off” or bristled at gender norms that did not make sense to them. With the rise of awareness of people who are transgender, you naturally get more people identifying as transgender, even if there were no other factors involved. Obviously, you also hear more often about transgender people as the culture becomes more accepting and people are less closeted.
On kids: When did you decide your own gender? You probably didn’t do so consciously. Your gender identity was formed and imposed upon you in innumerable ways from a very young age, like everyone else’s. You get labeled a gender at birth, in most circumstances, based on your genitals. And then you slowly learn how conforming or non-conforming you are to that label. Unfortunately, there is a ton of gendered activity and gender performance even at 3. It should not be a huge shock that kids at that age would start to encounter dissonance between their assigned gender and how they feel. Why does it strike you as a huge and consequential decision, potentially made at too young an age, for a three-year-old to be identified as transgender? Why is that more consequential, in your mind, than identifying them as a cis boy or cis girl at the same age?
I did not mean my post to be offensive. I’ve actually read somewhere that hormones in our food and water may contribute to changes. What I meant was, its a very young age to decide and start hormone therapy at puberty, we don’t let those under age 18 vote, so
Are they starting hormone therapy at 3?
Did this grandparent mention hormone therapy? Perhaps their grandchild has simply not been pushed into conforming to traditional gender choices and activities. With almost no information none of us can evaluate what is happening here.
I’m unaware of any hormone therapy or any medical or pharmaceutical treatment being prescribed for very young children who identify as transgender. Does anyone have a cite for this, or is this just fear that a kid might call themselves transgender, and their parents might be supportive? If the latter, it sounds like absolutely nothing to be afraid of or worried about in any sense at all.
At the age of 3, there’s certainly no commitment to hormone treatment. But, AIUI, if a child is quite certain before puberty that they are transgender and wish to undergo hormone treatment, the physiological outcomes (and therefore probably also the psychological/social outcomes) are better if artificial hormone therapy begins before natural pubertal hormones begin flowing. AIUI, this may involve treatment to block/delay the onset of natural puberty, but I think this is something that’s not done until close to when natural puberty is expected to begin.
I think guiding toddlers to a transgender life is not the intent; rather, the intent is to avoid psychosocially binning them (either intentionally or unintentionally) as either male or female. Example, if a parent has a 3YO physiological boy who decides he likes playing with the girls and wearing cute dresses like they do, maybe the parent shouldn’t yell “STOP DOING THAT SHIT - YOU’RE A BOY, NOW ACT LIKE IT”. Instead of guiding the kid towards a transgender life, or binning him to a cisgender life, let him explore himself.
FWIW, environmental estrogens are an issue. Not sure what it does to boys, but for girls, it’s been implicated in the early onset of puberty, a widespread trend that’s been going on for several decades now.
Good lord.
Okay, first, the kid isn’t going to start hormone therapy “at puberty.” At most, they might take hormone blockers at that point, which delay the onset of puberty, and give the kid more time to figure out their gender stuff. Also, they’re three. There’s about a decade between now, and when they start going through puberty, for them to change their mind. Lastly, these sorts of decisions are made under medical supervision. There’s going to be a doctor, who specializes in this field, working with the kid and making sure that they’re genuinely trans, and not “confused” or whatever you’re worried might be happening here.
This is the part that the “It’s just a phase!” crowd seem to miss. Hey, if it is “just a phase”, then what’s the problem? Just wait it out, like you would if the kid got a mohawk, or something. If they’re still in this “phase” after a decade, hey, maybe you were wrong about it being a phase?
I too will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are asking these questions in good faith and are open to having your mind changed. When you personally have never had any doubts about your gender or felt like something was off, it can be difficult to understand people who have not had certainty (or had certainty in the opposite direction).
But when you ask questions, first do a little introspection. If you are concerned that a toddler might change their mind and decide they aren’t trans at age 10, ask yourself, why are you concerned about that? Is it an issue for the kid, or for you? If you think hormone treatment at age 3 is too early, maybe do a little research to find out if that’s even a thing. Or ask people here, what age would they start hormone therapy, without jumping to commentary that it’s a bad thing.
People will be very open to educating you. it’s a new topic for a lot of people, and those who understand the topic are generally happy to discuss it, if you come at it with an open mind and leave your preconceived ideas out of your initial questions.
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What is a “PFLAG Meeting”. I don’t recognize the acronym.
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How does a 3-year old “decide” gender?
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How do parents “force” toddlers into a gender? For example, is buying a skirt for your 3-year old girl a definition of “force”?
There is a chance that the grandparents are overreading something in the toddler’s behavior. A designated-male kid who dresses up in fairy princess dresses isn’t necessarily going to identify as female. Maybe the kid just likes the swish and beauty of dresses.
I’d rather we de-emphasize gender for young kids, not pushing them to be Boy or Girl but just be whoever fits for them.
Of course, if the kid is already strongly identifying as a boy or girl, then ferchrissakes there’s no harm at all in taking them at their word. And if their word changes next week, the awesome thing is, we can adapt to that change as well.
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PFLAG is a support and advocacy organization for friends and family of LGBTQ individuals (the acronym stood for for Parents and Friends of Lesbians And Gays).
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How did you decide your own gender? It typically isn’t a conscious decision, it’s just something you know. It can be much harder to “know” it when what you feel conflicts with what society is imposing on you.
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Yes, dressing a girl in a skirt is imposing a gender on them. If they feel like a girl and want to wear a skirt, then it’s not a problem. If they don’t want to wear a skirt because “it’s girly” and they like boy stuff, then it can be called “forcing” a gender. There are myriad things we do that tell kids what gender we think they are, like colors, toys, and behavior.
PFLAG is a gay rights organization. It originally was an acronym for “Parents and Families of Lesbians and Gays.”
This is a serious question and not trying to be disrespectful to anyone. I would imagine that the vast majority of transgenders live out their lives as they are biologically born. How hard on them has that proved out to be? Is there some compromised state that many of them adapt to make their lives more tolerable?
First, the sad fact is that the time frame in which they “live out their lives” is often cut short by suicide. From a study in the American Academy of Pediatrics:
How hard it is to live as the wrong gender will be very personal. I’m not aware of studies that attempt to quantify this, or even how you could quantify it (although suicide attempts seems like a pretty good metric). One place to start would be listening to stories of transgender people who hid it for a while before coming out and possibly transitioning. This might also be pertinent, from a Q&A in psychiatry.org on gender dysphoria:
(bolding mine)
I think it is an earnest question and, though naive, not offensive when taken in context.
The remark about pretending to be a dog just illustrates the boundless imagination of children, nothing more. There was a little boy across the street from us who used to come over so my daughter could put nail polish, make-up, and a tutu on him. He was not transgender (we know him now as an adult), just liked to play dress-up. Kids like to pretend to be things they are not, whether it is the opposite sex, astronauts, or dogs. Pretending to be a dog does not indicate a child identifies as a dog, and not all children who pretend to be another gender are transgender.
The question about why there appear to be so many more transgender people now than decades ago is also an earnest one, and one worth asking (and I liked your answer).
Has this child had a thorough medical examination? Maybe s/he is intersex and it’s not obvious just by looking at them from the outside.
I too think that age 3 is far too early to read this much into a child’s behavior. I can’t even recall anything much from before age 4. I would sure hate to be told, when older, “Well, when you were 3, you said this, therefore…”
So, a boy who likes playing with dolls and likes dresses has to be a girl? Talk about being sexist. He’s a boy who likes “girly” stuff. Or are you saying that only girls can play with dolls?
“We’re just delaying puberty” makes it look like you’re taking a gap year before going to college. You’re pumping hormones into a healthy child and stopping a normal, natural progression in their lives.
This is an atrocity and I’m sure in 10 to 20 years we’ll hear from those kids living conflicted lives that their parents brought upon them. We’ll look at those parents as we do antivaxxers.
Parents are projecting a fashion onto their kids and harming them. Yes, I used the word fashion.