Transgenderism...God's mistakes?

Those individuals who opt for a sex change operation often claim that they are a woman trapped in a man’s body (or vice versa).
On 60 minutes (or 20/20) one such transsexual declared
he/she HATED God for “Mis-Creating” him/her.
How is it possible for the Almighty to assign the wrong gender to some of His creations?

Maybe God didn’t assign them the wrong gender.

Maybe God’s ‘great challange’ for those individuals is to see if they can accept what he has given them.

Maybe their idiots.

And so we arrive at a problem. You have three (really five) options here.

  1. The transgender person is lying. They are NOT actually happier, and would prefer their original sex.

  2. God has made a mistake
    a) In order to challenge this person to find their own true path
    b) Because he’s a sadistic git, and really doesn’t care about people in general

  3. And, of course, the possibility that God had nothing to do with it. (doesn’t care, doesn’t exist, etc.)

    Of course, assuming a perfect God, you arrive at conclusion 2b, which is really troubling, because such a god doesn’t make mistakes, and anything he does is on purpose. There are, of course, some who will blame Old Nick for this, but that’s dodging the idea of an all-powerful god.

How is it possible that god afflicts anyone with any kind of disorder? Why do you think transgenderism is a special case?

I don’t think its a special case…only a hot-button issue, like abortion or mercy-killing.

Its all in the way we recognize “selfs”.
Each of us determines “our own self” by the way we feel and think, but determine “another self” by the way they look and act.

I=internal criteria
You=external criteria

A boy with this “confused gender identity disorder” may be quite convinced he is a girl born into the wrong body, while friends and family stress he is suffering from a sad delusion…God doesn’t make mistakes, in other words.

Furthermore, transsexuals argue that they were born with a congenital defect, like clubbed feet or cleft palate, and as such, can be corrected through surgery. The family, on the other hand, maintain that it is plain to see that there is no disfigurement, but a PERFECT male body.

Thus, in order to restore the integrity the “self” He/She recognizes, he/she must destroy the “self” others recognize

Lamia took the words right out of my mouth!

And Arthur, you sound a bit, shall we say…mmm…bigoted? Do you think that transgendered people are idiots?

Perhaps it’s time to do a little educated research on what transgenderism is? The differences between sexual orientation, sexual identity, gender identity, and so forth? Nothing is ever as simple as “they’re idiots” or “somebody made a mistake.” That’s the coward’s way out of explaning a vastly complex issue that no one fully understands, but a lot of people understand far better than us who are not experts in the field.

I will provide appropriate links as time permits.

Esprix

Hello. I’d like you to meet my pal, Occam. This here’s his razor.

Perhaps the answer is (assuming that there IS some sort of divine entity) that “God” chooses not to have absolute control over every aspect of our lives.

“But he’s omnipotent!”

Yeah? Then how does he make mistakes?

I have had personal relationships with both God and
members of the intersexed/transgendered community.

I don’t believe God makes mistakes. We can’t always see
the reason why something happens, but it’s there. I am manic depressive. I was born this way and I believe God made me manic depressive for a reason.

While in various mental health facilities, I have met people who feel they are born in to the wrong gender, people who are of both genders (including an individual with both ovaries and testes). Often, they are quite clear on who they are and who they want to be. Their problems are generally caused by families that refuse to accept them and insist that they are sick.
One of the most  valuable and enlightening conversations I have ever had about Judaism was with a cantor (a role akin to a Christian choir leader) who had undergone surgery to transform a male body to a female one. She felt that she had committed no sin and that God had made her this way for a reason.

As I'm sure you guessed, I agree. Why is there cancer or famine? Why are some people born blind or deaf? If God can do those things for a reason, why not a soul of one gender in a body of another gender?

Perhaps God makes these people to teach us tolerance and love of our fellow humans. I seem to recall something about God moving “in strange and mysterious ways.”

Moses asks God for an explanation and gets
“I am that I am.”

Job does the same and gets (in part)

" Where were you when I established the world?
Tell me if you know so much …
Did you ever command forth a morning?
Have death’s gates been revealed to you? "

Even if God did try to explain why some things happen,
we aren’t capable of understanding. God is all seeing and all knowing, we’re human beings. It would be simpler to explain differential calculus and quantum physics to a 4 year old. This one of the many reasons that religions require faith.

PS Esprix, I’m sorry to see that you no longer evidently rock.

I don’t see how assuming a perfect God(which by the way would preclude that he/she/it could make a mistake(perhaps #2 should read “God has made them as being transexual”)) would necessarily indicate option (b). Of course, I’m just an athiest who would pick #3 anyway, but still, I think even the most religious are willing to accept that God occasionally does things that cause people pain in the short term(at the very least).

And let’s not forget the issue of intersex people (hermaphrodites).

They’re less common than “normal” transsexuals, but they’re not as uncommon as you might think. I knew one intersex woman whose father, at the time she was born, had to quickly decide whether to make the newborn baby a boy or a girl. He chose a boy, and the hospital sewed up the newborn’s unfused labia/scrotum. (Much later, X-rays revealed a partially formed uterus and ovaries within this person.) After 36 years of trying and failing to live as a male, this person found the alt.transgendered newsgroup and soon decided that she was a she. She has since had surgery and now is a “complete” woman.

One interesting thing she discovered along the way was that there is some evidence that male-to-female transsexuals tend to have brain structures characteristic of women. In particular, there’s this little bridge between the two hemispheres at the base of the back of the brain, which is present in women but absent in men. It tends to be present in the M-to-F transsexuals studied in this one study she cited. Many transsexuals may in fact be slightly “intersex” (hermaphroditic) in terms of their brain structure.

And to bring this back on topic: Even if transsexualism turns out to be just a psychological malady, and all transsexuals are actually disobeying God’s will by changing their sex, what about the hermaphrodites?!

Maybe god never created them? Because he would rather have a self sustaining system rather than one that he has to do everything in?

Besides you only see a distorted view through 60 minutes. You can also get people who would be somewhere in between. People who would rather be in between than one sex or the other. So there are probably people who would have rather been “the wrong sex” even if they are more rare:)

I do, but only when I remember to click that little radio button before hitting “reply”… :wink:

Esprix

Reread my first post. For brevity’s sake, I didn’t include much information on the intersexed, but I did mention it.

   An individual may have the outer structures of one gender, but the internal organs and chromosomes of another. Exposure to estrogens or androgen blockers can prevent a male fetus from masculining. The result is usually a "tomboy" who does not develop female secondary sexual charactertistics at puberty. In some cases, the increase in testosterone actually causes the testicles to descend and the clitoris to develop in to a penis.

   The list of conditions that cause a baby to be born somewhere between male and female is much to large to go into here. Even a brief study though, should make it clear that a male brain in a female body (or vice-versa) is well within the realm of possibility.

    Studies on rats have proven that certain events during pregnancy can cause this. For obvious reasons, the researchers could not perform these experiments with humans. However, one of the reasons that rats are so frequently used as experimental subjects is that they are so similiar to humans.

I expect some one to jump on my last statement, but I also expect a bunch of posts explaining that rats are indeed similiar to humans before I can even check the thread again.

OH yes, he does move in mysterious ways indeed

:slight_smile:

[hijack, and blatantly wiseass remark]

Hmmm…must be Doc Cathode hasn’t run across Esprix’s “What I Did When I Got to San Diego” thread! :wink:

[/hijack, and blatantly wiseass remark]

To the OP:

Why would it be necessary to find this as being anyone’s “mistakes”?

Perhaps their purpose is to find out who they really are, and then do what’s necessary to become fully that?

you know what?? there is nothing wrong with being transgendered. but the reaction of others [in most parts of the world] really screws a person up.

Actually, intersexuality is more common than transsexuality, at least according to the best known figures (1 in 20,000 transsexual, 1 in 1500 intersexual[sup]*[/sup]).

I don’t personally believe that being transsexual is any more of a “mistake” than being gay, and considerably less of one than being allergic to cats.

Oh, and by the way, Arthur, at least some of us trannies can spell correctly. Be careful who you go calling an idiot.

[sup]*[/sup]Sources: for incidence of transsexualism, DSM-IV; for incidence of intersexualism, http://www.isna.org/articles/dregerart.html.