running dogs of US imperialism … the following sentence started an article in my daily newspaper today …
Individually, each one of those words has some meaning to me, but as a sentence … whooosh!!
what is a giant holder?
spiked? if that some past tense of speak?
botched snap? do you cook it, eat it or fight it?
what did NY’s (any’s?) lose, and if the 49’ers won it, do they become the 50’ers?
Please translate for a humble EFL 
Note: IANAFootball fan, but
Giant’s is the team name for New York’s football team. The holder is the player who holds the ball before giving it to the quarterback at the beginning of a play.
To spike a ball is to throw it down at the ground sharply, so that it bounces back up again in somewhat of a neat way, due to it not being round. Football players spike the ball after a touchdown. I don’t know what the deal is with this whole play, but apparently the guy didn’t spike it, and he should have. Ruined tradition, maybe? I have no idea.
Botched snap would be that the guy in question messed up (botched) the hand-off (the snap) to the quarterback at the beginning of the play. Once again, I have no idea what this is all about, but I suspect it was pretty serious in terms of win/lose for the Giants.
As for your last question…New York (Giants) lost the game to the Sand Francisco 49ers - I don’t know under which condition that team might change its name to the 50s 
-mnemosyne, who thought she was being whoosed, but considering that this is GQ…
Our land is plagued by giants. Matt Allen is a man who catches, or “holds” them. He was recently accused of putting poison, or “spiking” a drink called the Botched Snap (made with Jagermeister & Snapple). This all took place at the final showing of a long running play in New York called “Loss to the 49’ers”, which follows the life a woman, from her coming of age as a teenager, all the way up to her 50th birthday.
Witnesses have come forward and testified that giant holder Matt Allen was no where near the bar, so he could not have spiked the Botched Snap at the final play of New York’s “Loss to the 49ers.”
I am really bored today…sorry
Well, I’m certainly no football fan (American football, bearing little or no resemblance to the game most of the rest of the world refers to as football), so I won’t try to deal with the significance of the article, but here goes:
Giants: the name of one of the New York area football teams.
Holder: when attempting a field goal, in which the ball is kicked through the goal posts, the ball is held in place for the kicker, on the ground, by the “holder.” Remember that an American football is not round, but has pointy ends. The holder puts one point on the ground, and stabilizes the ball by placing his finger on the other pointy end, so the ball is vertical, thereby making it easier to kick accurately.
Spiked: to “spike” the ball is to throw it, vigorously, directly down towards the ground. Normally, this is done when someone runs the ball over the goal line, and is a sign of celebration. Not being a football nut, I don’t know why a holder would be doing this, however.
Botched snap: when attempting a field goal, the play begins with the center crouching over the ball, then propelling it backwards between his legs (the “snap”) to the “holder.” If the snap is botched, that means the center didn’t get the ball to the holder, making it impossible for the kicker to kick the ball through the goal posts.
NY’s, 49’ers: The NY’s (the NY Giants) lost the football game. The 49’ers are the San Francisco 49’ers, a team name that refers to the California Gold Rush of 1849 - those who arrived in California to seek their riches were called “49’ers.”
Several simulposts - you should be able to get the drift by combining them, but, ahem, without the contribution of lost4life, who will be taken out and severely beaten. 
Okay, time for a football fan that actually saw the game to step in. The New York Giants long-snapper (the guy that propels the ball backwards to the holder who holds the ball in place for the place-kicker or punter) did not get the ball cleanly to the holder, Matt Allen. As a result, the holder could not set the ball properly for the place-kicker (who kicks the ball set on its end with the laces away from the kicker through the uprights at either end of the football field) with enough time to have a shot of getting the kick away without it being easily blocked by a defender.
The San Fransisco 49s get their name from the California Gold Rush of 1849. The miners in this gold rush were called forty-niners. (Think of the song Clementine. I’m a miner, forty-niner, oh my darling Clementine.) It’s a bit of history, which is often used in naming teams. If you have a burning desire to know more about the 1849 Gold Rush, consult a US history book.
Now, the NFL has it that the quarterback (the man who takes most of the snaps during the game and basically leads the offense when they are on the field) can get the ball and then throw it directly at the ground (spike it), causing an incomplete pass, loss of down, and stopping the clock.
However, this cannot be done if the snap is taken out of shotgun formation (where the quarterback stands several yards back of the snapper–the center of the offensive line–and then receives the ball) or if there is a long snap to a holder or punter. In this case, or if the quarterback has moved around inside the pocket (the area behind the offensive line) he cannot spike the ball UNLESS he is outside the tackle box (which has nothing to do with fishing; the tackles are two players on the offensive line that are the farthest players out on the line), as throwing the ball deliberately at the ground inside the pocket is intentional grounding–loss of down, ball placed at spot of foul, and–within the last two minutes of the second or fourth quarter–ten seconds taken off the clock.
As a result, the holder could not have spiked the ball UNLESS he got outside the tackle box. It would hve been intentional grounding. His best move would have been to throw to a reciever and hope that it went incomplete before using up the rest of the clock, as the field goal attempt was on 3rd down (out of 4) and they could have tried again on 4th as long as there was time left.
Now, the officials got the call wrong. There was clear defensive pass interference–where the defensive player, most often a defensive back or safety, interferes with the offensive reciever’s attempt to catch a ball without making a play for the ball himself. For example, hitting the reciever out of the way is pass interference, but looking back at the ball and positioning to try and knock the ball away is not pass interference. However, the call made was ineligible reciever (basically the offensive linemen) downfield, which was the wrong call as the reciever was eligible. So the pass interference call should have been made, giving the Giants the ball at the spot of the foul.
Also, the quarter/half/game cannot end on a defensive penalty, so the Giants would have had one more attempt at a field goal (kicking the ball through the uprights; the score is worth 3 points) to win the game. Whether or not they would have is an open question–would the snapper get it right this time, would the kicker make a good kick, would the ball be blocked, etc.–but they should have had the shot.
In any case, it should never have come down to that. The Giants’ defense allowed the 49s to overcome a 24-point defiect in the second half (last 30 minutes of play). Had the Giants’ defense not self-destructed, we wouldn’t be sitting here talking about it.
Oh, by the way, the Giants long-snapper was Trey Junkin.
When I read the sentence it made perfect sense to me. It never occurred to me that it is so dependant upon context that it would be unintelligible to folks without knowledge of American football. Language is a weird thing.
While asterion has done an excellent job in his posts, I feel that further clarification may be in order.
Time was running out in the game between the New York Giants and the San Fransisco 49ers. The Giants had one final chance to win the game by kicking a field goal, but they failed because the transfer of the ball between two players (the “long snapper” and Mark Allen, the “holder”) did not happen cleanly. Allen responded by ordering the team into emergency mode and attempting a forward pass into the end zone. If he was successful, he would have won the game and the Giants would have advanced to the next round in the playoffs. He was not successful, the Giants lost, and the 49ers advanced. It was widely speculated in the American media that Allen could have stopped the clock and given the Giants another chance to kick the field goal (and thus win the game and advance in the playoffs) by “spiking” the ball (see above for details). In fact, closer examination of the rules revelaed that it would not have been legal for Allen to spike the ball, and his decision to attempt a forward pass into the end zone was the correct one. Thus: “giants holder matt allen could not have spiked the botched snap on the final play of NY’s loss to the 49’ers.”
I will leave it to other dopers to explain the concept of “offensive pass interference”, “Elegable recievers”, and the intricacies of the instant replay rule as it applies here.
(rampisad, you’re going to be sorry you started this, I guarantee!)
Vibrotronica, I’m not sure if instant replay would apply. After all, you can’t challenge an incomplete pass. I believe that ineligible receiver downfield is not a challengable call. Also, since it was inside the two-minute warning, the review would have to come from upstairs.
As Cris Collinsworth says,
Here are the rules for instant replay dating from the 1999-2000 season. Here are the rules on intentional grounding and pass interference.
The fact is that it was a botched call and I’m not sure anything could have been done about it. However, that is still not the worst call I’ve ever seen. That award goes to a Thanksgiving Day 1998 (I believe was the year) game in Detroit where the ref got the overtime coin-flip wrong. Man, that was a bad year for officiating. No wonder instant replay was reinstated after that season.
Well. I got to say that so far, the only explanation that makes any kind of sense to me is lost4life’s. I’m going to read that other stuff very slowly, and will report back later (if I’m eligible and as long as the shotgun hasn’t been spiked in the end zone).
BTW, snapper is one of my favourite fish dishes and my wife usually gets it right! Could she get a job with the 1849 goldminers?
Having read, with increased bemusement and the beginnings of a migraine coming on; the above posts, all I can say is…Thank god for Cricket!!
CaptainGeordie
You can only say that because of the test result this week, otherwise I suspect you would sooner admit to being an ineligble receiver than claim England knows anything about cricket!
What you reported Cris Collinsworth says …
whoosh…Whoosh…WHOOSH…
:eek:
American Football for Non Americans, Chapter Eight, the Field Goal, By UncleBill
Before the play begins, you generally have two opposing lines of really Big Sweaty Men crouched down facing each other, giving each other bad looks. The two opposing lines of Big Sweaty Men wear different colors shirts, as they belong to different teams. The main difference between these two lines is that one Big Sweaty Man in the middle of one of those lines (let’s call them “Blue”) has an oblong, pointy ball in his hands, resting on the ground. The guys in this line are on Offense. The Big Sweaty Man holding the ball is called a “Long Snapper”. Behind the Big Sweaty Men wearing Blue in the line are two Smaller Sweaty Men, one is the “Kicker”, because his job is to kick the ball, and the other is called the “Holder”, because his job is, well, you get it. The SECOND line of Big Sweaty Men (let’s say they are wearing Red shirts) is on Defense, and they have a few Smaller Sweaty Men in Red Shirts behind them, too, also on Defense.
The intent of the Field Goal play is as follows. The Blue “Long Snapper” (Big Sweaty Guy with the ball), tosses (“snaps”) the ball between his legs backwards to the Blue Holder, who catches it and places it on the ground, with one of the points down and the laces oriented toward the Goal Posts (behind all the guys wearing the Red shirts). At the same time the Long Snapper snaps the ball, the Blue Kicker, who is even further back behind the Blue Holder, begins his steps toward the Holder in order to get a good kick. Simultaneously, the Big Sweaty Guys in Red try to push aside the Big Sweaty Guys in Blue and stop the kick, without hitting the Blue Kicker. The Blue Holder holds the ball, the Blue Kicker runs up to him and kicks it out from under the Blue Holder’s finger, and hopefully sends the ball sailing through the two vertical arms of the Goal Post, and above the horizontal arm of the Goal Post, which would award the Blue Team with three points.
HOWEVER, in this case, the Blue Long Snapper (Big Sweaty Man with ball) did not make a good toss between his legs (“botched the snap”) to the Blue Holder, and the Blue Holder could not get the ball placed properly for a good kick attempt by the Blue Kicker. At this point in the play, things have begun to go wrong. One option legally left to the Blue Holder is to act like the Blue Quarterback, and either run toward the goal, or throw the ball to one of a select few Blue teammates and have THEM run toward the goal. THIS option, if successful, would result in seven point awarded to the Blue Team. But the risk is great.
The clock was almost run out, and the Blue Team only wanted three points, not seven, so they may have wanted to stop the clock from running. One way to stop the clock is a failed pass. The Blue Holder, now standing there holding the ball with a bunch of Big Sweaty Red Men running toward him, could have thrown the ball and deliberately missed a Blue Player by just a little bit, thereby stopping the clock, but this also is risky. Because he was far enough behind his Big Sweaty Blue teammates when the play began, the rules say he cannot just throw the ball at the ground in front of him (“Spiking”), like he could if he were standing RIGHT BEHIND the Center, which would make the Field Goal attempt futile. So, when all the options available to the Blue Holder to try to stop the clock were too risky, the Blue Holder decided to throw the ball to one of his Blue Teammates standing past the Goal Line to get seven points.
At this point the referees fucked up.
Now, let’s say the NY Giants are wearing the Blue shirts, and the San Francisco 49’ers are in Red. The Giants’ “Holder” is the son of Mr. and Mrs. Allen, who named him after her Uncle Matthew. He is named Matt Allen. Matt tried to save the play after the Long Snapper, Terry Junkin, botched the snap. By the rulebook, he was not allowed to throw the ball down right in front of him in (spiked the ball) an attempt to stop the clock, or the penalty would be
which was a bad option anyway.
So, does
make any more sense now?
Cris Collinsworth (CC) made a comment during the live broadcast of the game stating that the holder should have “spiked the ball”. The article you reference is in response to CC being 100% wrong becasue that particular situation dosen’t allow it.
Forget it his remarks. CC is a moron and can not admit he made a mistake. Everyone heard him say “spike” but apparently he wanted everyone to hear “throw away”. Two different meanings in the NFL.
Sorry for the rush type job but I am getting ready to go home from work. Hope I didn’t add to the confusion.
Test result? Is CaptainGeordie pregnant? Did he score badly on his SATs? Did the experiment go arwy? Is his drinking water contaminated? Is his PA system broken? And what of the Emergency Broadcast System?
Two land, separated by a common language.
Aaah…cricket. ’ The Gentle Game’. There’s nothing like sitting in a deckchair on a lovely summer day, quaffing a nice cool beer, with the cows gently mooing in the background, and the larks singing, as the game unfolds on the village green, near the spreading chestnut tree. And clapping politely at every run made, stopping to nibble a cucumber sandwich, and rembering that old saying “It’s not how you win or lose, but how you play the game”.
In reality…it’s usually a cold, cloudy day, the deckchairs are all vandalised, my beer is foul and warm. the cows have all succumbed to Foot and Mouth, the lark is an endangered species, the village green is covered in dog shit, the cucumber sandwiches are soggy, the other team haven’t arrived, and the crowd are nearly rioting (all three of them). And the chestnut tree has the bight.
No, my mind is a beautiful blank on both the rules of Amercian Football and Cricket.! That’s what I was trying to get over !
I sympathize completely.
Newspaper headline seen on subway: Rap Raids Land Scam Artists in Six States
On first read: How did the artists in six states get scammed by the Land of Rap Raids?
[sub][sup]
(Oh wait, that’s grammatically incorrect. That would be “lands” or else “scams” in order to achieve subject/verb agreement. Aside from which it doesn’t make much sense. Therefore since the Post would never have a senseless ungrammatical headline I must be reading it wrong…) [/sup][/sub]
On second read: What the heck does rap music gain by raiding land scam artists, and what did they take from them? Is this like ‘sampling’?
[sub][sup]
(…mmmm, maybe that’s not it either?)
[/sup][/sub]
Yes, I eventually figured out that there had been a series of “rap raids”…
Only one problem, Uncle Bill. Kickers are never sweaty. They spend all of, what, maybe five minutes on the field for the entire game?