Fortunately, M-to-F SRS has gotten a lot better in the last decade or two. The big problem with “older” or “cheaper” M-to-F SRS procedures is that they would sever the nerves in the (former) penis that carried the pleasurable sensations. Modern procedures are very careful not to sever those nerves, and the better ones even place the nerve-bundle in the same place it would be if the patient had been born with a clitoris.
I ask out of curiosity and understand if you do not wish to answer, but I’m curious what taking testosterone does to a woman. I can imagine that your body is probably more hairy. Does it help you grow facial hair? Do you find your “curves” disappearing (like hips?) Does it decrease your breast size? Do you have to now worry about male pattern hair loss?
One thing I recall from the human sexuality course I’m currently taking is that the exposure to testosterone enlarges the clitoris, since all the external genitals and most of the internals have their respective equivalent in the opposite gender.
Clitoris = glans of the penis
Labia = scrotum, which fuses during pregnancy in male fetuses
Thus, when the clitoris is exposed to androgens (male hormones), it can expand sometimes to the extent of being a small penis.
Oh and IIRC: yes, facial hair does appear with time. I recall several FtM transsexuals had beards, although I imagine some experience the same inability to get a good growth going as some men.
Oddly enough, I just learned something on The Learning Channel! That happens rarely.
I knew about the study in Amsterdam on the hypothalamuses of deceased MtF transsexuals–they showed that both the size and the type of fibers were the same as in what Kelly calls “natal woomen”(useful phrase, that!). But it also showed that the brain of a MtF who had never taken female hormones was also a “female brain,” indicating that hormone treatment was not repsonsible! It was a very small study, of course, but interesting.
As for me, I am the Senior member of the group, having had surgery in 1978. I have not, and will, not talk online about my sex or love lives, but for the sake of the honest questioning here I will note that “the plumbing works, and so does the electricity,” thanks.
“Natal woooomen?” Yikes.
That’s okay, on the internet I’m wearing my “I don’t mind talking about it in details” hat.
There is an expression sometime used to describe ftm transsexuals: “invisible men”.
Part of the meaning is that if a ftm is taking testosterone, after some time on it, you usually can’t say by looking at him on the street that he was born female.
Here’s a page detailling the masculinizing effects of T:
http://health.ftmaustralia.org/ftm/03_effects.html
But in short: hairs hairs and more hairs, the fat of the butt, hips is being redistributed, more muscle, periods stop, facial hairs, receeding hairline, hair loss if predisposed to it, often acne in the beginning, breast size decreasing a bit, voice droppring to a male range, growth of the clitoris/shaft, change in the facial structure (like jaw squarring or the nose).
I’ve been two months and half under T for the moment and I can vouch for the more hairs part (legs, thighs, stomach, hands, arms, brows, mustache and sideburns area, nose hair (ugh)), my breasts have changed a bit and so have my genitals. No voice change though, but I’m on a low dose of T.
For those curious the link on my profile leads to my livejournal, links to the steps of my transition are on my bio.
Something that I knew was possible and that happened with me is that I can’t cry from sadness anymore. I want to, but even if I force myself, I just can’t.
The Successful TransMen page, showing headshots of ftms:
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TransMen.html
A good site showing an exemple of physical transition is this one:
http://friffboy.tripod.com/
There is also a page showing the effects on the genitals, if you do a search for “ray’s page of pricks” you’ll find it. (The rest of his site is pretty good too) There is also there a good pic of an exemple of an alternative to phalloplasty for ftm, a metaidoioplasty, which is basically working with what you grew down there to make a little penis.
So anyone, don’t go look for this site unless you understand you"ll see close up pics of ftm genitals, and please please, even if they may look really really weird to you, try not to make negative comments about it, it’s a sensitive subject and often our pride to be able to grow something on our own. I’m serious.
<b>Priam</b> is right on the spot to point that male and female genitals have their respective equivalent.
I guess I can empathize, because I once had a bad dream that I was turning into a guy, and it really freaked me out.
On second glance, that’s rather vague. What I mean is, I had this nightmare, I woke up and I felt really creeped out. I also felt disturbed at the idea of possibly turning into a male, because I LIKE being female.
If I woke up tomorrow in a male body, well, let’s just say I’d be screaming bloody murder. (But I would check out the “Poor Man’s Lava Lamp”…)
Interesting re the post about MtF often “over-emphasising” female fashions: nearly all of the photos of FtM (and they really do look like men, you would never know) have beards. Most of them are so male, that even without the beards I think they would look like men not women. Perhaps the beard is about a confidence things, just to totally make sure society accepts them as “proper” men.
And one more comment - the facial feminisation photos are absolutely incredible. That doctor is a miracle worker - his results look far more improved/pretty, and far more natural, than any regular plastic surgery I’ve seen on female celebrities, etc.
Thanks everyone for making this such an interesting thread.
http://srs-thailand.com/ is a website with pictures of after-sugeries. I was surprised what all they can do.
I am dating a person with non-traditional gender and she was very upfront with me about it from the start.
The confidence thing is one of the reason, you don’t say Madam to someone with a good amount of facial hairs, even if the person in question is small and may not have a perfectly flat chest.
I know that for me having facial hairs is one of the ultimate male symbol, so watching them grow, even with the small amount I have now, gives me a sense of pride, the “I did it!” factor, it’s the proof that my transition works.
And well, some transguys simply like having a beard, just like the non-trans variety.
Or maybe it’s because they’re tired of shaving. 
Thank you so much for the links! Very appreciated! Informative and interesting. The pictures, in particular, are amazing.
Don’t you think it should be told right away? Even in a “few day” relationship, kissing or holding hands may come into play, and I think it’s only fair that they know first, don’t you? They may or may not want to kiss you after finding out.
I would think that there could be some legal problems with this.
If I found out that joe_cool was once joelene_cool, I would get a lawyer, try my best to figure out how to press charges against her, sue her for fraud and psychological support I would need for the future, and of course, get a divorce (that is if our marriage was even legal, at that point).
What if the person who you are dating wants children. Some people may not want to adopt, and I don’t know anyone who prefers to be artificially inseminated. I just think it’s unfair and dangerous to not tell the other party ahead of time.
On side of all that…
Men that have surgery and hormones to look like a woman still have the Y and X chromosomes, and they do not have a female reproductive system. This cannot change. So is it that they just want to feel womanly, be treated like a woman, and look like a woman?
Vice Versa for women who take hormones and have the surgery.?
A bit on a personal note, and I will understand if you decline to answer:
Do men who have the surgery get “wet”? If so, where do the excretions come from?
Do the woman who have the surgery get an erection? Or do they need a device to help them? How do they cum?
I am sure that there are many MtFt that I have met that I never knew the difference, but there are several that I have met (not knowing they were transexual at the time) that I thought looked odd or “not quite right”. I guess they didn’t look womanly to me, or they seemed to try to hard to be feminine. I can’t put my finger on it.
When I said something to whom ever I was with, they told me they were transexual. I noticed that everytime I thought this, they turned out to be transsexual.
Is that common?
I know that seems like a silly question, but it’s honest.
JerseyDiamond I don’t think you understand the basic concept here.
FTMs are men.
MTFs are female.
Jersey, if I may be so bold as to argue this one, you’re missing the point that for the transsexual person, what they are is what they know themselves to be internally, not what their bodily form might be – otherwise they wouldn’t be transsexuals. Though this gets into a Clintonesque definition of what “is” means, they see themselves as always having been women despite having a male body, or the reverse for FtM transsexuals.
Bringing the subject up on a first date is about equivalent to your saying to Joe when you first met him, “Oh, by the way, I’m a woman, in case you didn’t notice.” They don’t conceive of themselves as lying about what they are – because to them, what they are is what they know themselves to be internally. A MtF transsexual is not, at least in her own mind, a man who became a woman, but rather always a woman who inconveniently had and got rid of (or is getting rid of) male body parts and a male physique.
I think the transsexual folks have been fairly explicit that if the relationship progresses to a point where intimacy becomes desirable, that is the time to make the history clear.
In view of your example of “Joelene Cool” I thought it might be worthwhile to go through that – I had a really tough time wrapping my mind around the idea that it was an internal, self-perception thing, and not a desire to become something you weren’t, so it seemed worthwhile to bring up my understanding of what they feel.
I too am interested in your other questions, and have noticed that the few F2M transsexuals I’ve encountered or seen pictures of often look unusually “masculine” for a woman – whatever the antonym of “effeminate” would be is the word I really want there. (“Butch” doesn’t make it – that’s an attitude and clothing style, not a matter of innate personal appearance.)
On the children thing, while I do agree with the normal expectations on this aspect of a marriage, I chose to marry Barb knowing that our odds of having children were slim – and God blessed us with children not of our bodies, and their own kids as surrogate grandhildren. I’d see a woman who has undergone sexual reassignment surgery as little different from a woman who has had to undergo a hysterectomy, in that they’re women who cannot have children. Somebody asked me in another thread how I’d feel about being intimate with such a person, and my answer was that my curiosity about what they’d been through, how they felt inside, and so on, would probably be stronger than my libido at that point.
The word is mannish Polycarp.
I do understand the concept that they believe that they are what they claim to be.
The problem is that many people, including myself, do not see them as what they claim to be. To me, if you were born a woman, you are a woman no matter what you do to yourself. I would not want to date you and I would feel scammed or tricked if you didn’t tell me, and I found out eventually. I would feel like I had no other choice but to press charges. I wouldn’t want it to happen to some other unexpecting person.
That is the reason it should be told to the people they are trying to date.
When Joe_Cool first met me, he was looking to meet a woman, he eventually wanted a long term relationship, he eventually wanted to get married, he eventually wants me to have his children. If I tricked him into thinking I was a woman, but I was born a man, I would have to tell him that I couldn’t have children. He may ask what’s wrong. Should I make up a lie, or tell him the truth. Well, after 3 years of not telling him, I would expect to either:
A. hope he is ok that I deceived him (not likely)
B. get sued and maybe put in jail
C. get the crap beat out of me for lying to him
D. get exposed to everyone in town (and I just wanted them to see me as a woman)
I don’t know about anyone else, but when I use to date, I use to assume that if the person looked like a guy and all the other manly things, he was a guy. I don’t know about things today.
I am usually a very upfront person. I would have no problem with asking a person if they were born male or female. Even on the first date.
It is scary to think that I may have to teach my children that people aren’t always what they appear when it comes to gender.
If I started dating joe and he told me that he may not be able to get me pregnant, I would ask why, and if it were for reason like:
my sperm count is too low, or I had to have a surgery that made me infertile, that would be ok. We would figure something out. But telling me you were born a girl and didn’t feel comfortable in that body, would be unacceptable.
Sorry about the missing comma, Polycarp.
What about revealing your racial make up before kissing or holding hands, Jersey Diamond? Do you think that is obligatory? There are racists out there that would feel as betrayed at finding out they had kissed a person with some non-white grandpartents as some would feel at finding out about having kissed a transsexual. Revealing either in front of certain bigots could get you killed.