My previous job was at a startup where a significant portion of the engineering department were Orthodox Jews. They kept pretty strict kosher rules. It made any sort of ordering in lunch quite a task - there were only a few restaurants within 20 miles of work that they were willing to order from. Occasionally we Gentiles would set up lunch expeditions in secret and sneak out to the parking lot in ones and twos.
At one point, the startup was acquired by a large French company. This entailed many trips by various staff to Paris. I never got to go, but if I did, one thing I’d look forward to is French food. But as it turned out there was exactly one restaurant in Paris that met the Jewish employees criteria for kosher, and they ate dinner there every single night. I asked some of the non-Jewish engineers what they did, and they said that they ate with the Jewish coworkers at that restaurant every single night as well. They thought it would be rude to ditch them. They also said they thought the food was OK, but nothing remarkable or memorable. None of them asked the Jewish workers if it they’d mind if the rest of the group dined elsewhere, and none of the Jewish workers ever made an offer like “Please don’t feel like you need to eat with us every night.”
So what would you do? As I said, I never managed to get on one of these trips, but I know I would have ditched the Jewish coworkers by night two. I can’t imagine going to a city famous for its food, and subjecting myself to the dietary restrictions of coworkers. I absolutely would have said “I really want to try (non-kosher meal) at (non-kosher restaurant) - why don’t we meet back up at the hotel at 10?” and headed out the door.
I’m honestly a bit mystified at the sneaking about for lunch. Presumably your co-workers were aware that not all of you were Orthodox. I tend to assume people are adult enough to handle the realities of their lifestyles until proven otherwise. And if they had taken offense at you guys simply going out to lunch yourselves, rather than making some big sneaky production of it, that’s their problem.
I would have done just as you said in your last paragraph. You’re working with them all day, I don’t think you’re obligated to spend all of your downtime with them as well. Hell, I’d probably have said “See you tomorrow,” rather than “meet you at the hotel tonight.” It’s not rude to not be joined at the hip with your co-workers.
The sneaking out to lunch was in place before I started there. I don’t know if it was due to previous attempts by one or more kosher employee to join the lunch expedition and move it to a restaurant of their liking or just a (misguided?) effort to spare their feelings. I suspect the former, since there was one kosher employee who had zero social graces or awareness.
Ugh. My friends and I once had a vegan acquaintance who would invite himself along to supper, and then he’d pressure us into ordering vegan dishes so that he could share with us.
I’m with you; I’d just say “I’m going somewhere else for supper tonight, see ya” and get my own food.
I am Jewish and don’t keep kosher, and would have absolutely no compunction about going off on my own - either in the office at lunchtime or in Paris.
This isn’t hypothetical either, I went to law school with a great many orthodox Jews (the other law school nearby of similar rank and calibre was Catholic) including a few who had never had any secular schooling prior to law school. None of them would think that going to get a sandwich at a preferred nonkosher deli, or splitting off for dinner, would be rude.
It seems that the original issue had to do with a lack of social skills on one side, and a supreme lack of assertiveness on the other, not kashrut per se.
Long answer short: if it were me, I’d have dinner a few times with my Orthdox Jewish colleagues just out of esprit de corps, but would definitely strike out on my own in Paris. Hells yeah.
I would find it surprising if these Orthodox Jewish coworkers themselves put pressure on their non-Jewish coworkers to eat with them. They didn’t say “Please don’t feel you need to eat with us every night”, but that could have been out of fear that saying so could be received as “please don’t eat with us”, which would seem unfriendly.
I have worked with strictly kashrut Jews many times in my life (though they were never a majority component of my teams), and they were generally always quick to say, “Don’t worry about me, I’ll handle my food myself”. They would even go with us on after-work group outings to places like Bennigan’s or something just to hang out. In terms of ordering food in to the office, we would just order from two different places, or order from somewhere that had good kosher food. In NYC anyway that’s not very hard
While a 20-mile radius might be a limiting factor for ordering lunch in for delivery, that shouldn’t be true for dinner. Unless they were going back to work together after dinner? That might make it more difficult logistically. Otherwise, there’s a whole neighborhood of Paris called Le Marais (“the swamp”) which is historically a Jewish quarter and has many fine kosher establishments, well-known to the point where one of the top kosher restaurants in NYC is simply named “Le Marais”.
Aside from that, there are sure to be Middle Eastern restaurants galore in Paris too, serving falafel, hummus, etc., as well as many vegetarian Indian and Chinese restaurants that are by default kosher.
As long as you aren’t bringing a ham & cheese sandwich back with you, have at it. I would have ditched them after the first meal, both at home and in Paris.
Hm. When we had a gluten-intolerant employee here, nobody went out of their way to provide gluten free options at potluck luncheons, nor would the restaurant suggestions be limited to those that do not serve wheat products. When I was full-on vegetarian, nobody went out of their way to accommodate me, either. In fact, we used to have a birthday luncheon on a monthly basis to celebrate the birthdays of everyone whose birthday was that month. What did the birthday girls choose for my birthday month? Longhorn Steakhouse. (I was obviously outvoted.)
I say maybe have dinner with the kosher coworkers once, or one lunch, and then everyone is on their own. I’ve never been traveling with business colleagues and been expected to conform to anyone else’s dietary constraints, nor would I expect anyone else to conform to mine.
I’ve made a point to make separate dinner arrangements from my coworkers on business trips even when they were eating at a restaurant I would have liked. A little time when you’re not joined at the hip is important.
Googling gives a list of thirty or forty synagogues in the city listed as “orthodox”. I suspect if you got one of your Jewish co-workers to call one of the Synagogues, they could get a lead on a few more restaurants they’d find acceptable.
But that aside, I don’t think there’s any problem just telling your coworkers you don’t feel like kosher and are going to do your own thing for food.
I don’t know. It’s a business trip not a vacation trip. If the other travelers are using meals for business purposes - even if it’s just informal networking or making plans for the next day - then you should be there to participate. You’re there on the company’s dime not your own.
On the other hand, if business is being exclusively handled at other times and your co-workers are going to this restaurant just to eat, you’re not obligated to eat with them.
There is nothing in Judaism which implies that non-Jews have to eat kosher food. Orthodox Jews know this perfectly well.
There is no reason to “sneak out the back” for lunch,either.*
Now,there does remain the issue of politeness, social cohesiveness, esprit de corps, etc.
Explain to your co-workers( and yes, to your boss, if necessary) that you enjoy eating with your team , but your evening hours in Paris are not what blue-collar workers call “on the clock” time, and you don’t want to miss an opportunity to enjoy the city. So, on your first day or two , eat with them, for reasons of politeness.And if there is a business dinner with a client, then make it at the kosher restaurant—that’s “on the clock” time.
But the rest of the time----do your own thing, and don’t apologize for it. Including the routine lunchtime at the office back home.
Be aware that many Orthodox Jews will refuse to even set foot in a non-kosher restaurant. This is because they don’t want to appear hypocritical; a person wearing a yarmulke on his head in public stands out, and therefore under Jewish law, has an obligation to set an example. If he sits at your table, he appears to be joining you in your meal, and a person passing by would say “gee, that Orthodox man is eating non kosher food. What a hypocrite and a cheater”.
So don’t be offended if you invite them to join you in a non-kosher place, and they walk with you to the door, but don’t go in.
*In fact, I’m pretty sure that if you were actually forced by your employer to “sneak out”, you’d have an easy lawsuit to file.First ammendment, separation of church and state, freedom of and from religion. Stuff like that.
I’m Israeli and have definitely struck out on my own in several cases where I was abroad with kosher-keeping co-workers.
You cannot be expected to bow to every last co-worker’s whim. Or all hell will break loose when the vegan and the Orthodox Jew and the guy who looooves lobster are forced to eat together.
I no longer work for that company. There’s no chance I’ll be taking a business trip to Paris at all in the foreseeable future, much less with Orthodox Jewish coworkers.
This was dinner after the working day was over, and not with any of our new French colleagues/overlords. It was only employees of the acquired startup, who had no need to network with each other over dinner.
There were one or two Orthodox Jewish employees per trip (not planned based on religion, that’s just how it happened), and the reasoning I was given was that it would be rude to make him/them eat alone.
I have no idea whether there are particular sects within Orthodox Judaism, but these guys (who all knew each other outside of work) had a few quirks that I found particularly unusual. One told a story of a business trip to Japan where he could only eat fresh fruit and drink beer to remain within his dietary laws.
No one was forced to sneak out for lunch. It was just kind of an understanding that if you wanted to get a group together for lunch, you’d organize it via IM and not mention it out loud. It only applied to engineering as well - both QA and customer support were perfectly willing to organize their lunch outings. I agree it was strange, but since I pretty much always brought my lunch to work, it didn’t particularly affect me.
