Treating epilepsy the normal way versus my father.

Here is a short background, followed by my questions to you all.

Background
I’m a normally functioning 27 years old who rents from my father. A few years ago I began having simple partial seizures. I’ve had the round of tests with my MRI/CT being fine, but EEGs recorded a multitude of seizures.

I have been put on Levetiracetam and clobazam which have cut my seizures down from 40 per month, to 2. I experience a bit of tiredness, and I believe a fair bit of memory loss (I’ve had memory tests which show minor problems, but nothing major) which has an unknown cause of either the medication or the seizures themselves. I am content with my progress, but am obviously still looking to explore options to better my position and disheartened by my memory. I am working with my neurologist and specialists to see what steps I can take, but as can be expected it is a slow process. I am also joining different clinical trials that come available as an alternate route to finding solutions.

My father is unhappy. He calls my medication both poison and “chemicals,” and wants me to explore “natural” remedies because doctors want to keep me sick to make money. We don’t get along too well, but he says he cares a lot about me. His interest in my situation causes problems because he insists on joining me in appointments and then proceeds to distract from them by bringing up his interests.

In contrast to the steps I’ve taken above, my father has a different ideal path for me: No medications. Charlotte’s web as a “medicine,” as well as a multitude of supplements daily. B complex, B3, B6, B12, folic acid, pantothenic acid, magnesium, Taurine and some other stuff. All of which are in values much above what is needed daily. He comes from a mindset that taking tonnes of supplements each day is necessary to keep you healthy (he takes an ungodly amount of pills every day), and that simple things such as soy/beef among others are bad for you and should never be eaten. I think a quick way to summarize him would be he is on a lengthy conspiracy theorist bandwagon that doesn’t stop often.

I disagree with his ideas on the grounds of accepted medications having proven records of working, lack of evidence of weed helping my type of epilepsy (or really any types), wanting time to see the effects of medication changes, and waiting for further test results and data. I also struggle to accept his intentions with weed because I know he is a heavy drug user and is even growing plants now, so I feel there is a SLIGHT bias to his position here, blocking his rationality.

My current thoughts are to have both of us write out our feelings and ideal situation, and why we have them. I think that with a process like this we can both have a better understanding of each other, with solid list of things wanted tied directly to their reasoning, which can be criticized point by point from both sides. Writing it out rather than speaking allows for the removal of emotion from at least part of the process. My problem here is that I can see him obsessing over any permanent object which I give him, and if my argument doesn’t fit with his world view he may never stop trying to convince me or will confront me more often. I know that I of course hold the ultimate say, and he has so far respected that, but I prefer to stay as civil as possible with him.

I have a neurologist appt. coming up in about 10 days. Lets see if you guys are more creative than I am.

The Questions:
What would be an effective way to discuss this? My problems lie in having level headed conversations with him about this. He tends to get excited easily, and doesn’t respond well or really even acknowledge my criticisms. I try to dismiss his as well as I can but he likes to repeat things - even after I’ve argued against them in a way that I’d consider adequate - without changing his reasoning.

I can not appeal to authority, because he thinks my neurologist is a fool who admits there is little that we know about the brain, which makes any point of his invalidated. I can not criticize his arguments about supplements or weed because there really is no logic to work with. He lacks understanding of epilepsy as well as the basics of health it would seem. If I argue, my points tend to be dismissed because “he used to work in a hospital,” or because of something he heard on a conspiracy show or on some equivalent of a “Dr” OZ show stating some simple thing magically cured a person.

Is there a fair or non-confrontational way to say I don’t want him to be involved in my medical life in any way? That I don’t want him to come to meetings? If you had to approach this, what would you do? He tends to get excited easily, as mentioned above, and would likely take it very personally. He currently assumes that any appointment that I have he is invited to, and I am finding it very awkward to bring my going alone up to him. I drop subtle hints saying that I can get to the meetings just fine on my own and that he doesn’t need to worry about me or my appointments. These don’t work.

In writing this I somewhat feel like I should just grow up and tell him to fuck off, but I’ll see what you guys think ;).

I started thinking this about 1/3 of the way through your OP, and still do.

Of course, it’s easy to say that from where I sit, so please don’t take it as me just giving you shit. If you’re living with him, even if you’re paying rent, he probably feels more parental ownership over you than he should, or most fathers of a 27-year old would. You probably do have a conversation coming, and it’ll probably be hard and uncomfortable. Good luck.

I went through this with my mother when I had some ortho issues at your age (she would even call my ortho behind my back when she thought I was withholding information from her. I wasn’t, but that was hardly the point). You can hear him out as much as you want, but in the end, you are a mentally competent adult who gets to make his own medical decisions.

Hopefully someone can come up with a more diplomatic way to put it than telling him to fuck off, but in the end I think that’s basically what you are going to end up having to do.

I’ve mostly given up telling my mom anything medical at all because I am so sick of her second-guessing me and/or my doctors. She’s simply incapable of not giving unwanted advice. (When she did it in the beginning with my first ortho, I apologized for her after the fact to him, explaining “she’s a Jewish mother - you know how that goes, right?” His reply: “yeah, I’ve got one of those, too.”)

P.S. Lately I tell Mom that when she becomes a board certified specialist, she gets to have input into medical decisions. It doesn’t work very well. I wish you luck.

“Dad, stop coming to my medical appointments and stop inserting yourself into my personal business.”

Ah, thanks for reminding me Eva! I forgot to add that he actually has contacted my nurse without my knowledge once. I won’t take any comments personally so don’t feel bad onecentstamp, haha.

Part of me also wants to put a dent into his worldview and bring him back to reality, even if just a little bit. I feel bad for my stepmom and other family who has to put up with him.

I have a theory:
‘You will never be a true adult in the eyes of anyone who ever changed your diaper’.

You have the added problem that your father is an anti-intelligence moron who can’t understand how medicines work, but can comprehend ‘good NATURAL stuff’.

Unless you can regress him to age 6 and create a new person history, you will not change his attitudes.
Your problem is not that he has crackpot ideas - it is that he insists on injecting those ideas in places where they are hideously inappropriate.

Moving out and cutting all contact is about the best that you can do.

You may be able to cite HIPAA and use it to keep him out of your medical treatment. As an adult you have the right to exclude him from your medical treatment.

But a healthy ‘Fuck Off’ is much more satisfying…

For the “holistic” thing, I would just cite the results. Simply saying “look, I used to have 40, not I only have 2 and I’m only with the side effects” should…should be sufficient.

For him coming to your appointments, I can see two ways to deal with it. 1)Change the appointment without him knowing. Assuming you can get to the new one without him knowing that you went.
2)If you have the ability to email the doc, email the day before the appointment and ask that when they come in, they say ‘do you mind if I speak to him alone, he’ll be out in a few minutes?’ or even better, ask the doctor to just tell your dad that he/she’d prefer to see you alone (maybe it’s ‘important for you to be independent’). If you explain that he doesn’t like the medical profession and that he’d rather you were treated with natural OTC herbs and it makes you uncomfortable to have him there, they’d probably be happy to have him step out. Don’t forget, they do regularly say ‘do you mind if i speak to him alone’, it’s just part of what they do.
Of course, you’ll have to deal with your dad, but I’d just say “I don’t know, he just said ‘look, Dave, you’re an adult and you know how these meds are affecting you better than him so it’s easier if we speak one on one’”. Have him do that each time, maybe your dad will stop coming after getting asked to leave a few times.
I’m assuming now major decisions are being made. Just medicine management.

The speaker doesn’t get to decide what is “Confrontational”.

That’s the long and the short of it: If the recipient interprets a communication as being confrontational, it is, and the sender can’t change that. “Offensive” works the exact same way, as does “pornographic”/“obscene” (misguided legal ramblings aside), “titillating”, “shocking”, “enraging”, and any number of other emotional responses.

This is, in fact, very freeing: It means the only alternative for you is to phrase the statement you wish to make in the most straightforward way possible and let your father take it from there. If he decides it was confrontational or offensive, that’s up to him. If it makes him not want to spend time with you, that’s regrettable (I infer from your OP you don’t want to cut ties with him), but it is also his choice, and it’s better than festering resentment, which is what results from letting people walk all over you.

And if he refuses to acknowledge your clearly-stated desires and demands to continue his behavior, well, that’s why we have laws in this country: As a last-ditch way of responding to people who just won’t take a hint any other way.

I think this quote fits this case very well. I have been talking with friends about setting something up for getting a new place, so we’ll see.

Results don’t mean anything when I am being “poisoned,” unfortunately. I’d prefer not to go through the doctor if I want to exclude him, I think this is something I must do face to face, but I hadn’t thought of that as an option. Interesting idea.

That is very true, but for people who have some emotional troubles I think it is worthwhile to try to accommodate their needs, whether deserving or not.

I know you live in the same house, but your appointments are none of his business. Just don’t tell him. Do you leave the house without him for other reasons? Work? Meeting friends for lunch or coffee? Just leave like you’re doing something else and then go to your appointment. If he’s reading your calendar, switch it to a digital one and keep it on your phone. Just because you live in his house doesn’t make anything you do at all his business.

Just like any other pair of adults who have to figure out to get along, accept that he will never agree with you and make this a subject that doesn’t get discussed. When he asks about it or starts talking about it uninvited, change the subject. Don’t answer. Walk away. As far as having a discussion about it with him, be firm and tell him you’re handling it and that’s as far as it’s being discussed. You must agree to disagree and drop it. Change the subject. Keep walking away until he figures out to stfu about it.

It’s tough when you still live in a parent’s house. They don’t know where to draw the line with adult children, especially when the child has never left. Parents in that case especially, have difficulty seeing their kids as fully independent adults. It’s up to you to draw the boundaries.

I’d probably start with citing the evidence and when he brings that point up, I’d go with ‘I’m sorry, but it’s working and I’m not willing to risk have one or two every day’.

OTOH, you’re probably not going to change his mind, it might be easiest just to ignore his comments, don’t respond at all for a while. Change the subject, walk away, say ‘sorry, I don’t want to get into this again’, whatever it takes, maybe even picking a huge blowout fight, just so that even if he ‘knows’ he’s right, he’ll leave it alone because ‘it’s a touchy subject with you’.
This is basically how many/most of us Atheists deal with religious relatives. Just a quick ‘sorry, I don’t really really like talking about it’ and move on. Trust me, many of my relatives are ‘disappointed in me’, but that’s their problem, not mine. I don’t have the energy to have a discussion with them about that. I could just as easily say ‘I’m disappointed in you for being religious, same thing’.

Similarly, you could look at your dad and say ‘The stuff you think I should take is actually worse for me and would make me sicker, you’re mad at me for taking pharma drugs, I’m mad at your for suggesting I don’t, it goes both ways’. Ask him for proof (real cites, not facebook (etc) posts.

ETA, if you want to indulge him, ask him what ‘natural remedies’ can stop 40 seizures a month. I mean, if you had chronic rhinitis or hemorrhoids or got colds 9 times a year and ‘real’ meds weren’t helping, sure, there might be something natural that could help. But I can’t think of anything natural that works for seizures. At least not anything a neurologist wouldn’t suggest to begin with (do they do magnesium for seizures?).

Don’t worry about him contacting your nurse – at least from her end. HIPAA protects them from releasing any information without your say-so.

I really think your best bet for now is just not to let your father know when your appointments are. I’m assuming he doesn’t drive you there, so he can’t insist on going everywhere with you, can he, just to make sure he doesn’t miss out.

Good luck. FWIW, I’m a fellow epileptic and I’m glad to hear your meds are working out for you! Seizures suck.

My aunt shares your dad’s beliefs, my professional training is in Chemistry. One of my personal defects is that I will shut the hell up about people’s stupid beliefs while not being directly adressed but, if someone asks me a direct question, I do answer. After that season where I started giving the chemical composition of every item in reach (including air and the beer she was drinking), she hasn’t changed her mind but she’s refrained from giving that particular rant in front of me.

I understand that time she tried it on my sister in law didn’t go down well, either. SiL’s a GP.

Your father is almost definitely not going to listen to you. You’ve got several things going against in this.

First, your his kid. To him, you’re the little child who needs to help, not an adult capable of thinking for himself.

Second, this is his belief system. It’s a form of religion to him, and things like like facts or reality aren’t going to change his mind.

Do what you can to minimize confrontation, arguing about it isn’t going to help. Do assert your right to make your own decisions, that’s something you definitely want to push back on. But trying to change his mind is likely to be a losing battle.

I agree with the others who have suggested it’s really not worth having a big discussion with him. You won’t change his mind.

What you should work on is weaning him off having anything to do with your appointments with your doc.

Don’t tell him when you have an appointment. If you can’t shake him off, it is a good idea to enlist the doctor. They’ve dealt with intrusive relatives before. Short-term, they can help you by shooing him out o the consult room, but long-term, you’re going to have to find ways to cut loose from Dad yourself.

If he does know the date for your appointment, can you call the doc’s office and shift it a bit, then not tell him? And reinforce with the receptionist that they’re not to disclose appointment info to your dad or anyone but you.

Good luck!

This is really the best solution. Tell your doctor and his office that you don’t want your father involved in your treatment and ask for their help to ease him out if he tries to accompany you. They can just tell him that privacy laws means he has to wait outside, now. You won’t be the first patient who asks for help in shifting a nosy relative.

As far as arguing with him goes, I wouldn’t bother. You can’t reason him out of a belief that reason didn’t get him into.

Only if he didn’t put list him as an exception. I know I always was asked and wound up putting my parents as exceptions. But, of course, I trust my parents not to pull this crap.

Then there’s just how casually doctors will technically violate HIPAA with family members. He should tell them, just to be sure. It’s a lot easier than a suit after the fact.

You might consider visiting a therapist (one who has a focus on family issues) a few times, to get some help developing strategies for re-orienting your relationship with your father. This is going to be a big task, and a little professional advice might go a long way.

You need to accept that these misconceptions are your father’s religion. It’s faith based; facts do not enter into it. And Jack Chick tracts aside, you can’t just talk someone into changing their religion.

If you can drive yourself, there’s no reason for him to accompany you to your doctor appointments. If you don’t drive, you’ll have to arrange alternate transportation.

If there exists, however slight, the opportunity to live elsewhere you should seize that. And pursue it vigorously.

He’s not going to change. Or let up. Ever. You, however will grow frustrated and resentful, until something blows up into an ugly confrontation, where things will be said that cannot be unsaid.

And I think you know every bit of that to be true. If you really wish to avoid confrontation with him, maintain good relations AND manage your own care like the adult you are, you just gotta get out!

Whatever the draw is, that keeps you living at home at 27, has to be balanced against both managing your own care and keeping good relations with Dad, I think! I’m of the opinion you should value those two much more highly than your current living arrangement.

I mean, your mental health may well hang in the balance! I’m not seeing a grey area. Get moving. And don’t look back or second guess your choice, it’s the right thing to do!