There is a meme for everything now:
-sniffs the air of the board-
Ah, it already smells cleaner, less like old gym socks.
Seriously though, why does it always seem the trolls and trocks come in clumps? And not JUST the sort of clumps that I shovel out of my cat’s litter box.
Yeah, last refuge of a scoundrel.
Or to excuse not voting at all.
Which, if they previously voted for Trump, is at least an improvement; though some people have been using it all of their lives, and never bothered to vote for (or against) anybody.
Some people, however, are deliberately attempting to use it to discourage other people from voting; and these will try to use it selectively against people who aren’t of their party.
@What_Exit: good decisions in both cases. Thanks.
Yeah. I have had my opinions changed by what I’ve read, both here and before I came here on the snopes boards; and often in threads in which I didn’t comment. (Yes, there are threads in which I don’t comment!)
I find this place rarely changes my opinions in big ways, but very often makes me re-consider the underlying premise of said opinions. And that leaves out the many, many layers of nuance other posters tease out of the oft-threadbare articles and news stories that I miss.
Trolls, by contrast (our topic of course) tend to want to go to extremes in both directions: they pick one factually correct item in a hugely complex subject and insist since that ONE fact is correct, all their other inferences must be! 
Or, they try to reduce everything to such vapid if “correct” generalities (All Lives Matter being a clear and semi-current example) that they can claim the moral high ground and REFUSE to consider the nuance and real world consequences of such things.
THIS place (the board, and often the Pit) is absolutely great at, to borrow a phrase from a favorite novel of mine:
“To condense fact from the vapor of nuance.”
(Neal Stephenson, Snow Crash)
Sometimes (though I don’t think in this specific case), the “clump” is all the same troll. Sometimes there are external events (like school schedules) that result in many people having free time all of a sudden. Sometimes it’s triggered by news events. And of course, sometimes clumping is just due to randomness, because random events naturally clump up (at least, more than most humans expect).
Does this description fit an actual troll? I’m not disputing your definition, I’m wondering whether my understanding of a troll is inaccurate or too narrow.
To me, what you’re describing is not really a troll, but a person who is stubbornly wrong or at least misguided in their viewpoint, and refuses to entertain any other viewpoint, cherry-picking only the facts that fit their worldview. This type of person is very annoying, but (at least I thought) not really a troll.
Whereas a troll may or may not believe their stated viewpoints, but often do not. In any case, whether they actually believe what they are saying is beside the point to them. They are deploying their statements as little shit-bombs designed to stir things up and get a reaction out of people. Trolls are not trying to create a dialogue, they are merely getting entertainment from riling people up.
Quote from the link below:
This 2006 addition to the Oxford English Dictionary sums up trolling pretty well:
“To post a deliberately erroneous or antagonistic message on a newsgroup or similar forum with the intention of eliciting a hostile or corrective response.”
As I’ve said here ad infinitum (ad nauseum by now), I discern NO difference between the two. Since we would have to be mindreaders to know for sure, all we know is that BOTH engage in the same tactics, demonstrate the same fallacies, use the same rhetoric. That we should give the True Believer more slack “just because” he is allegedly “sincere” is ultimately pointless (and message board-defeating).
Agreed. I don’t care about the technical definition.
There are many types of trolls. One that posts that All atheists are monsters post right after a suspension is a very obvious troll. Even if they sincerely hold that belief. (Which I doubt)
Glad to hear that at least one person in the modloop finally agrees with me. For years we’d get all sorts of pushback, that “Oh you’re just complaining about posters you don’t like with viewpoints you merely disagree with! Do it again and YOU will be warned!” Meanhoo the usual suspects would literally get away with all sorts of crap here, often for many years (not listing their handles we all know who they were).
I understand why many legitimate posters from that era finally quit-I was at one point close to doing so as well when nothing was ever done about these twits.
[But since (A) I can’t complain about moderation here, (B) the mods in question are pretty much all retired now anyway, and (C) most of the trolls in question are also now gonzo, shutting up now]
I think the current mods mostly agree with “if your actions are troll-like than you are more of a problem than you’re worth”. That is a fairly new guidance and was used to remove many long term problematic posters.
I do and I think it is an important difference to me insomuch as how I personally regard the person on the other side of the post. Trolls, genuine by strict definition trolls, are fucked up. The ignorant or confused are just ignorant or confused. That said, that’s a philosophical POV. From a practical standpoint…
I have no real problem with this.
I do think people on this board continue to be more hair-trigger (and triggered) by potential trolls than they probably should be. I get that decades of annoyance will do this - it’s why the stereotype of cranky old people exists 
. But by a certain point if a “genuine” crank is just being a crank without listening to others, eventually they just aren’t worth the trouble to salvage.
Apologies if I’m asking a dumb question or beating a dead horse here. I historically have not ventured much into discussions related to trolls and trolling, so I am somewhat of a novice in Troll Theory.
I do see the logic that it’s a fool’s game to try to gauge the actual level of sincerity behind the apparent trollery; so if it looks and acts like a troll, it should be treated as such.
Mostly my take. I don’t make a huge distinction between people arguing in bad faith (which both of the tactics I listed are IMHO) and the more literal, shit-stirring troll who is only in it for the lolz. To the extent I differ, I am willing to make some effort to get them to try to see the error of their ways and correct them, and the second group I want banned ASAP.
Now, different posters here will have different ideas of if a specific individual poster should be in the first or second group, and I do not deny them their POV.
A troll is somebody who understands that the shit they’re posting is getting a rise out of people and keeps doing it because they like seeing the pot stirred. That’s it. Doesn’t mean there aren’t other flavors of jerk as well.
I agree, and I’ve been on the record multiple times as well. If someone consistently derails threads, enrages normally calm posters, regularly makes threads into their own forum for long stretches—well, I don’t care if their hearts are true and their motives virtuous. That’s close enough to troll for me.
That said, my threshold for thinking it’s reached a bannable level is pretty high. Inexplicably, the mods don’t confer with me when making these assessments.
I just want to highlight this as I agree 100%. One of the most valuable resources that I take from this board is there are people here who are very good at taking incredibly complex subjects and breaking them down and explaining them in layman’s terms.
I can’t count how many times I’ve seen something in the news, or Republicans have thrown out another lie or obfuscation, and something doesn’t feel right about it to me but I’m not sure what, I can’t put my finger on it. Almost invariably I’ll come here and there will be a long post detailing the many logical issues or just explaining what’s going on in an understandable way. Usually with a sarcastic quip at the end that will make me smile at the end of the day.
Would you say that threshold is in the STRATOsphere?
d&r
Hang your head in shame!
Dagnabit but that’s a dad joke for sure.