There are lots of vamps who don’t kill humans. Eddie (the one that Jason’s psycho-addict girlfriend kidnapped and killed), never fed on humans at all and only drank Trublood. Vampires and humans cannot be so neatly categorized as good and evil.
The zealotry of the church also goes so far as to demonize even human “vampire sympathizers,” which turns people against their own friends and families. Even just causes are corrupted by fanatacism (not that I think the anti-vamp thing is particularly legitimate), and this church is lousy with it.
This show has a lot of allegorical allusions to both race and sexual orientation, but I think the church camp is is, in some ways, a comment on “War On Terror” demagoguery.
I don’t know if it’s been mentioned in past threads, but the actors portraying the pastor and his wife are doing spot-on impressions of Joel and Victoria Osteen, leaders of the Lakewood mega-church in Houston.
Cool, here is an official Fellowship of the Sun website! With devotional videos and everything. You can even order the “Light of Day” t-shirt that they wear on the show!
They can kill humans very easily, but they don’t need to kill humans in order to feed on them. There’s ample evidence in the show of humans being bitten, sometimes multiple times by multiple vampires, without dying. In fact, it seems pretty pleasurable for humans to be fed upon by vampires.
It doesn’t seem like modern vampires are interested in killing humans willy nilly. They wouldn’t have “come out” in public if that’s what they wanted. They seem to want to be legitimate and acknowledged citizens, which would entail that they obey the law WRT killing people. They could have remained the stuff of legends, which would have allowed them to kill without as much scrutiny, but they didn’t.
I think the church is supposed to represent an unnuanced, intolerant view of those who are different. Yes, vampires can be very dangerous, but they are sentient beings asking to be given civil rights and entry into society. Advocating genocide against them is not justified.
I don’t like the acting of Bill, have never found him credible, nor the “love” between him and Sookie (and ew, how he says her name!). The attempts at romance with *any *of the characters feel like satire. Seductions are short-lived, not the slow-burning kind where you can’t wait for them to finally get together. It just all feels so contrived to end up with x-number of sex scenes/episode. I’m no prude, and love a good sex scene if done well.
I keep watching this, waiting to be hooked, but I just keep finding it…embarrassing.
It’s a fraction of vampire society that wants to come out in the open. Since Bill’s friends scoff at him for “mainstreaming”, it seems like it’s a minority of the vampires.
Bills 3 friends showed no concern or hesistation when they nearly killed Sookie before bill stopped them. Other vampires have scoffed at the idea of valuing human life.
I think you’re painting them with a broad brush when the reality is that there’s a lot of variation in the attitudes and actions of vampires. But it’s clear that a signficant fraction are willing to kill humans as they have been for hundreds of years.
There’s a legitimate threat from vampires that goes unrecognized in the series - something between open minded naive “it’s cool! they’re just a little different!” and the hateful charicature of the church.
If this season is in fact pulling from books 2 and 3 as I suspect, Sookie and Bill are due to break up sooner than later. They’re through as a couple by partway through book three, and never get back together again at least in the books since then, though book nine ends on a less than thrilling note for Sookie/Eric fans - she thinks he’s a little less of a dick than she has since book 3. I’m hoping the actors dating doesn’t prolong their terrible on-screen romance.
I agree. It felt like there was some real chemistry between Sookie and Bill before they actually hooked up in S1, but lately they act like they’re faking it. Which is weird, since they’re a couple in real life. Maybe they hold back because now they’re acting, and before, it was real. Which makes no sense at all, but there it is.
I’m not feeling any chemistry with Sam and Daphne, and just a little bit (all on Tara’s side) with Tara and Eggs. Jason and Sarah – Jason’s all boy toy with her. I liked his relationship with the V addict in S1, even though I hated the character.
Don’t forget that Bill was required to turn an innocent young girl kidnapped from her home into a vampire in order to stay within the bounds of Vampire law.
So there is nothing at all wrong with wanting to stake every vampire. They are predators to human beings pure and simple.
The Vampires by and large are a threat to humanity. We are just cattle to them.
Of course there are. There’s also a significant fraction of humans who are willing to kill humans, as they have been for, oh, the entirety of human history.
I think it’s acknowledged but that the church is taking a genocidal stance, which is not justified. Jason of all people knows this. Look at the contrast between Eddie and Amy-- which was the cruel, heartless predator and which was the innocent victim? Ditto for Rene, who killed poor Gran for no reason at all. It’s not so clear cut that the vampires are always and only the monsters. Human beings have been pretty damn monstrous in this show too, and often with less reason.
No. You’re saying hey, it’s cool, they just want to fit in. This is clearly contradicted in the show where many vampires scoff at Bill’s decision to “mainstream”.
I’m acknowledging the situation as it is - some portion of vampire society is content to change their ways now that they aren’t forced to feed on humans, but many or most consider humans to be inferior and they’re willing to kill them. Look at how Eric and his friends treat Sookie - as if a human weren’t even worthy to speak to them.
Humans have not eaten other humans as their sole means of survivals for millenia.
Vampires are different. They function differently biologically. They think differently. They have supernatural powers. They have, for thousands of years, preyed on humans. This situation only shares superficial similarities between racial discrimination. Vampires are different, powerful, dangerous, and have quite a track history of being serial killers.
The church is pretty extreme - but what I was saying was that this show excludes the middle. There’s no one who has a reasonable degree of fear of vampires or skepticism towards their motivation. Everyone is just vile and hateful.
Given the circumstances, a reasonable person could be very concerned over the implications of vampires in society. This show excludes the middle ground in order to pound us over the head with simplistic “SEE! DISCRIMINATION IS BAD!” messages that aren’t analogous to the situations they’re trying to be anvilicious about.
The greatest natural predator to humans is… other humans. But we believe they are innocent until proven guilty, don’t we? Vampires are sentient beings. Treat them that way, as individuals, on a case by case basis. That seems to be the most sane way to handle it.
Nope. I’d say not. I’d say genocide against other sentient beings is wrong, esp. when it’s been proven that there is a significant portion of their population that is law abiding, and when humans have proven to be rather vicious, murderous, and predatory, towards other humans and vampires.
Ok, then in that case every Vampire older than the existence of True Blood is a mass murderer. Every Vampire after that is a potential mass murderer, but also a vicitim.
But in the case of Vampires it is 100% certain that every vampire who existed before True Blood’s invention is if not a murderer at the very least a rapist who has sucked the blood of his victims.
Also, it is quite clear that vampires live by a separate law from humanity as shown by the fact that they have a parralel hierarchy with a judicial system that considers murdering a young girl and turning her undead is a just punishment.
You seem to expect a lot more from the humans than you do from the Vampires.
SenorBeef In all fairness, the show makes a mockery of the notion that vampires are an oppressed minority. It makes no bones about the fact that the vampires are an elite ruling class that subjugates human beings at whim. All of the equal rights pap is a smokescreen, and that is made abundantly clear by the show’s tongue in cheek references to vampire rights.
No, I’m not saying that at all. I’m taking a nuanced view wherein each vampire would be judged individually. You are advocating genocide. Who is painting with a broad brush again?
Vampires are capable of feeding off humans without killing them, often consensually. Who cares if some vampires think humans are inferior? That’s not a crime. Yes, some of them are willing to kill humans. Some humans are willing to kill other humans. Judge them on their own actions. What is the problem with this? I think it’s a pretty fair view. I’m not saying vampires are totally safe, all of theme are good, no problem. They are quite scary and very powerful, but do they all deserve to die? No.
You know, eating them is actually a better reason than most people can give for why they kill other humans. I imagine if vampires are accepted into society and given rights, but expected to live by the laws that they participate in making, then they’ll be more likely to mainstream and less likely to kill. Ostracizing people, demonizing them, and advocating genocide on them is not going to make them very eager to behave as you want them to.
I don’t know why you feel the need to tell me this. However, I still haven’t seen any valid argument for genocide or against judging each individual on his merits.
The people in Merlotte’s were in the middle-- they grumbled about Bill and seemed afraid of him, but they weren’t ready to kill him or anything. The average person is depicted as rather skeptical and fearful of vampires, but not as extreme as the church. So I guess I’m not seeing this excluded middle. The show does focus on people like Sookie, Jason, and Sam, all of whom are or are intimately associated with supernatural beings, so of course they are more accepting. Overall society is not shown that way.
People are VERY concerned. There is plenty of evidence of that in the show. Discrimination is bad? That’s what you’re getting? I don’t see that at all. What I am seeing is that knee-jerk hatred is bad, and I agree with that message.
If the existance of vampires was a secret up until recently, how likely it is it that there was consentual feeding? How could that information not have gotten out? Far more likely they killed their victims to maintain their secrecy.
As for the rest of the post, you’re addressing a position I never took. I said this show - as an artistic work - attempts to draw parallels that don’t do a good job of making the point they want to make. They exclude the characters from having a reasonable position of being concerned about vampires without being bigots.
This may be true, and it’s also attacking a position I’ve never taken.
Because they’re different species - not even species, since they’re not alive. They’re supernatural. They work a completely different way than we do. We shouldn’t think of their integration into human society as being like when we tolerate those of other races or sexual orientation - it’s more like if we decided to accept space aliens into our society. There may be a case for it, but we’re dealing with something unfamiliar, not just some sub-group of humans who aren’t really any different.
I guess I’m thinking of mostly when Sookie reads people’s thoughts - every single one of them is vile and nasty towards vampires.
I’m getting that the creators of the show are trying to beat us over the head with how intolerant society is of anyone different. They’re trying to draw parallels between racial minorities and gays and vampires in this society. My objection is that these situations are not analogous, so painting them that way is simplistic at best.
There is no evidence that you have to kill a person to feed off them. It’s likely that yes, many vampires killed people. Calling them “mass murderers” is like calling wolves and poisonous snakes mass murderers. It’s their nature and I’m sure they didn’t know they could or should be different until recently. Is it better for them to just hide in the shadows and keep going as they have been?
No, it’s not 100% certain. There’s tons of evidence that many, many people WANT vampires to suck their blood and very much enjoy it. A canny vampire would have a group of willing humans, who he would not kill, to drink from. Your rape metaphor does not hold up in 100% of the cases as you claim.
Yes, of course, they are a different species and have rules that we find barbarous and horrible. Judge them on their individual merits.
After it’s been pointed out ad nauseum that vampires are different from humans, is it surprising that I’d say the standard is different? Humans are just as murderous, barbarous and horrifying as vampires, with less excuse. I expect humans not to kill other humans, yes, that’s true. Killing your own kind is much more reprehensible than killing your natural prey, no?
It’s like wolves trying to live in peace with deer. The fact that any of the wolves even want to is surprising, isn’t it? Give them a little credit. Cannot blame humans from being very scared and vigilant, as they should be. And they should expect that vampires will be held to a standard of behavior that does not involve killing humans, and many vampires do not hold up to that standard. However, genocide is a bit extreme, sorry, I’m not going to recant that position.
**SenorBeef **pointed out the problem with this. Humans are chatty Kathys. What would be used to keep them in line, glamering? Threats? If that’s required even once then that vampire has become a rapist. Do you think that a vampire can live 200 years and never come across that problem? Really?
Many many people when it’s out in the open. How do they find these willing people when it’s secret?
That entirely dismisses everything I said. Any vampire that submits to vampire law is a threat to humanity, as was shown by Bill’s punishment requiring a scapegoat in the form of Jessica. Conforming to Vampire law should be considered a criminal act. There should be one law, not two.
But human beings don’t NEED to prey on other humans, it is not an existential necessity. That’s the difference.
Why should deer be expected to live in peace with a wolf?
You don’t have to recant it, but the existance of vampires is necessarily a threat to human beings. I wonder how many people have been locked in vampire dungeons and then glamered in order to make them shut up?
But now you’re arguing against a position that I’m not taking. I don’t think it’s exactly the same as gays or racial minorities, nor is it depicted as such on the show, because if it was, we wouldn’t see as many brutal, murderous vampires. If the show wanted to show anti-vampire bigotry as being wholly wrong, they wouldn’t depict so many of the vampires as unsympathetic.
The show has chosen to focus on just the microcosm of Bontemps, and not on the larger social implications of vampires being out in society. Imagine how the legal system would be struggling to deal with laws for vampires, their civil rights, etc. That’s not addressed at all. I’d be interested in seeing it, but it’s not going to happen, because this show is a glorified soap opera.
Except the ones that want to be bitten, and there have been a few.
I’m not sure they are. I think they are saying that vampires are very dangerous, but that people are too, and with less reason. They are setting up a contrast between humans and vampires so that you wonder who is worse. Yes, society is shown as being very intolerant, and I think that’s how most people would feel, with good reason. They are afraid. The show seems to want to expose that vampires as less scary than they think, and humans more scary than they get credit for being.