UB, kindly explain how what I described is the same “thinking with the nads”? I said I had observed that people (of both sexes) seemed to “fall in a love” a whole lot more easily when they decided they wanted to get married and/or have children. This led me to believe that what we call “love” was not some random ocurrence, but a confluence of several factors.
All of that punches holes in the classical concept of “romance,” true, but it’s hardly “thinking with the nads.”
I don’t think women are more picky, exactly…they are just picky in a different way. Some women are really particular about looks to feel physical attraction, but women’s taste in how men look seems to vary considerably in what they find attractive - I could probably find a picture of a girl that 90% of men found attractive, but it seems that for every man who is supposedly very attractive I know several women who think he’s unattractive for some reason or another. Yeah, there are some guys who like traits in women that most guys find unattractive, but they seem more of the exception, while women with unusual taste are more of the norm.
When it comes to non-appearance related things, women can again be very unusual in what they find a turn off. Guys basically will put up with anything from a woman except psychotic or harmful behavior. A woman might have no problem with a boyfriend who treats her like dirt, but be put off by something seemingly insignificant like the way a guy laughs or dresses.
Basically, women are harder to understand, but not necessarily pickier. If women were particularly picky, I could not explain my limited success with them.
Since the OP mentioned “Blind Date,” I have to say that the women on that show baffle me. When they’re asked what they look for in a guy, they say, “Oh, I like a well-built guy…someone cute and tall and intelligent and smart and masculine…someone who’s not full of himself, a guy who likes to get out there and just say what he’s feeling, but a guy who’s not too stuck on himself…somebody sensitive who isn’t afraid to share his feminine side with me…I like a guy who takes charge, but doesn’t boss me around…I like a guy who treats me like a woman…I’m looking for a guy who isn’t intimidated by me…I like a guy to treat me like a lady…I’m a Daddy’s girl…”
Seriously. WTF? She’s just described about twenty different men, and she expects to find them all in the same body. And she’s going to judge Guy X not on what he’s offering, but what he’s lacking, according to her absurd standards of who she deserves. If she gets eight out of ten of her “Top Ten List of Most Desirable Traits In a Guy” she’s going to bitch about the other two, and how her type would have fulfilled them all.
Get real! Every moment in life is a compromise between what we want, what we think we deserve, what we end up with, and how long it took to get it, or how hard it was to find it. Who do these women think they are?
Meanwhile, the guy’s saying, “Yeah, I like a girl who’s hot and likes to have fun.”
Great thread, Lizard, and great comments, by everyone. I don’t know that I have much to add, but I wanted to address something someone (XJETGIRLX?) said early in the thread; the part about women wanting men to understand all their needs and wants.
First, I have to say, yes, that would be wonderful. For both parties, if it worked both ways. Sure, I suppose there are men out there whose entire list of needs runs “I need food. I need sex. I need a beer.”, but I doubt any of you ladies would date such a clod. We may not like to talk about it openly, but we do have more complex needs than that. And, that’s been touched on, by a number of you. We’re not taught to consider such things, we’re taught not to talk about such things and, if we do talk about such things to women, the reaction is often that we get dumped for being needy/whiny/wussy.
The flip side is women’s wants and needs going unmet. And, here, I can’t really speak for all guys (so chime in, if you disagree), but when I’m in love with a woman, I’d like nothing more than to meet all her needs and wants. But, I’m not psychic. Nor do I have an unlimited ability to filter the genuine, deep-seated needs out of the stream of consciousness babble that so many women throw at us.
And, I don’t really mean that as an insult, because I know it’s actually flattering that you want us to know everything about you. (Except for the occasional babbler who will tell strangers every detail of their lives, given the opportunity.) The problem is in the presentation. Yes, I’m perfectly happy to sit and listen to you pour out your heart for hours, because A) I really do want to know you, B) it makes you happy, and C) sometimes, just the sound of your voice is heavenly.
But, if there’s something in there that I really need to be paying attention to, I need a hint. Otherwise, it gets filed in the “mundane background” file, with all that other stuff about how you had the best year of your life when you were 17. If I were perfect, yes, I would pick up on it. And, if we were three years into the relationship, I probably would, because the radar gets more finely tuned, with experience. But, this stuff all comes out early in the relationship, when we’re still not that attuned to you, yet.
We’re kind of like the mule in the old joke; we’d really like to please you, but first you have to hit us upside the head with a two-by-four, to get our attention. Sure, we start out listening attentively, but after half an hour, it just becomes a pleasant drone. We hear it, we understand it, we welcome the sharing; but, we stop expecting important revelations. So, if you’re going to share one, whip out the two-by-four, to let us know it’s coming.
Men are definitely more “picky” than women.
More men have more “problems/serious faults” than women.
More men have been in jail, more men go crazy, more men commit suicide, more men are homosexuals, more men commit sex crimes, men live shorter lives, more men are color blind/cannot coordinate clothes/outfits, men are more unkept and dress poorer than women, more men are alcoholics/drunks, etc.
It is mathematically impossible for men to be pickier than women, since most of both sexes get married/date/live together, etc.
Women are forced to accept less by what is available.
Marriage has taught me much about how I express myself to other people. I think you’ve got it right on. It’s not that men and women are all that different in their wants/needs as far as relationships go, but that you’ve got to learn to ‘speak the other gender’s language’.
My husband and I (before we met) had both prided ourselves on our ability to understand the people around us, to ‘read’ people, so to speak. When we met, we both found that each of us had finally met the one person we could not ‘read’. Neither of us had the ability to decipher the other’s true feelings. Our misunderstandings are quite the stereotypical man/woman speak kind.
He’s very logical to his approach. If I come to him when I’m distressed about something, he tries to find the root of the problem and solve it for me. But the thing is, that’s not what I want, necessarily. I want to commisserate, I want someone to act as a sounding board, not as a handyman. We can spend hours arguing about something until each of us finally grasps the understanding of the other, and then we just look at each other and go, “Oh. Why didn’t you just say that in the first place?” Heh.
I can’t even begin to expound upon all the ways this is just wrong. I am incredibly ashamed that we share the same gender, let alone the same planet.
Wow! And, I thought I was bitter. There’s an equally long, depressing litany of valid complaints men can make about women, in general. But, I don’t think it’s appropriate to go into, here. Suffice it to say, both genders have their issues, and we just need to be little tolerant.
So, which one of my ex’s are you? 
Yeah, guilty of the handyman syndrome. I always want to “fix” whatever is distressing my sweetie.
Yeah, I’ve finally started to grasp that concept. What worries me is that I’ll offer commiseration when she really wants a “fix”. I guess she’ll ask, though. (Whoever “she” may be.) I’m also not too sure what all I’m supposed to do, when commiserating. With guys, it’s just, “Yeah, that sucks. Want to get a beer?”, for the most part. I know women want more than that, but I’m really not clear on what they do want. Any hints would be most welcome. 
Men are ‘visual’ while women tend to be more ‘audio’. In other words, men tend to search for a woman that looks a certain way. With women it seems more how much a man will reveal of himself and show his emotions. I don’t know that you can really say one is more pickier than the other. Expectations change as you age. I don’t look for the same thing in a man as I did 20 years ago. Yet when I surf the net I find that most men are still looking for a trohpy on their arm than they are companionship.
Heh, well, I think the trick is that secretly, deep down, we don’t know what the hell we want either
As far as when I do just want to commisserate, I want the person I’m talking with to understand everything I’m going through, I just want to share the event, not just by telling them about it but by their asking questions to further their own understanding of what I’m going through. I want them to walk in my shoes, so to speak, and see what their reaction to the situation would be. I find that it usually helps me to work out my own feelings when I can gauge what someone else’s reaction might be, and know whether I’m overreacting or just imagining things. Once I figure out the how and why I can work on the fix myself (most of the time).
One interesting example of this is when my husband and I get home after work. I immediately start to tell him what my day was like, because I know that I want to hear all about what he did (and ergo assume that he would like to hear about mine). I find that while he listens attentively, when I ask him how his day went, I usually get either “Okay”, “Fine”, or “Shitty”. This can be frustrating because I want to kind of vicariously experience what his life is like in order to better understand and communicate with him.
I’m one of the few women (apparently) who only talks about problems when I want solutions. I don’t like to talk just to “sound off”, I talk about something when I want someone to help me to analyse it and try and solve it. Unfortunately, too many people are convinced by the “men are from mars, women are from venus” stuff that implies that all women want to be listened to and not given solutions. That might be true for some women, maybe even most women, but it’s not true for me!
That’s one of the reasons why although I’m bisexual by inclination, I generally prefer men.
The moral of the story being that people are different.
Susanann, go hide under your bridge, and don’t bother us billygoats.
Well, i have to take issue with your sample.
Given the sort of people who appear on Blind Date, your figures are perfectly explicable, especially in terms of the guys. In my experience of watching this show, about 90% of the guys who appear on it are total fucking idiots who have no idea about how to behave in social situations. Many of these guys are so in love with their own useless selves that they can’t believe that any woman wouldn’t want to fuck them on the spot. And, perhaps paradoxically, they all seem so desperate for a fuck that they’d be happy to go on a second date even with a woman who obviously has absolutely no interest in them.
Accounting for the women’s tastes is a little more difficult. My estimate has generally been that about 50-60% of the women appearing on Blind Date are similarly shallow, self-absorbed and idiotic. Some of these women are so wrapped up in themselves that they consider no guy to be good enough for them. And, of the intelligent and interesting women that appear on the show, many have far too much integrity to ever go out with some of those loser guys more than once. But there are other women who blow my mind, saying that they would see the guy again even though he has spent the whole date treating them like shit. No accounting for people tastes or levels of masochism, i suppose.
The thing i find strangest about the show is the pre-date interviews, especially the guys. If all these guys are the “players,” “ladies’ men,” “casanovas,” and “smooth operators” that they claim to be, then why the fuck do they need a dating show to get a date? And if all the women are the great catches that they claim to be, same questionapplies. I have to agree with my girlfriend’s assessment - many of them are probably wanna-be actors or models who see the show as a chance for some exposure.
Sorry, that last post was a bit of a hijack, but i thought the point (if i had one) was worth making.
Heh… My brain parsed that as, “…kind of throw a wench into that theory…”
Yep. Guilty as charged. I dunno about your hubby, but I just don’t consider most days to be worth rehashing.
I went to work, I worked, I came home. NOW, the interesting part of my day starts. Once in a while, something bad enough or interesting enough will happen, at work, that I’ll want to talk about it. But, it’s pretty rare. It’s the same every day; it’s tedious. It doesn’t interest me when I’m there. Why would I want to vicariously relive it?
Will you marry me? 
I swear I’m not a girl, its just the boobs that throw people off. (Oh, and the mood swings).
But I problem solve unless told other wise as well. (I need warning if its a comiserate deal.) Without warning I’m looking for a way to think about the situation that may be new or provide a better outcome.
My observation regarding physical attraction:
The most important thing for a man is how attractive a woman is; the most important thing for a woman is whether he is the right type.
E.g.: If a women says she prefers tall, blonde cowboy types; and you introduce her to a really good-looking guy who is short, dark-haired and speaks with a New York accent; the woman will likely say, “He’s attractive, but he’s not my type”.
Now, if a man says he prefers tall, thin blondes; and you introduce him to a really good-looking woman who’s not tall, thin or blonde; he will likely flip over her.
And when you point out that she’s not his type, he’ll say, "Yeah… but look at her."
If true, this might help explain why both sexes sometimes seem to be the pickier sex.
From what I’ve seen, I think it’s the guys who are WAY pickier, especially when it comes to looks.
Like for instance: I know a lot of very attractive girls that dated/are dating guys that are, should I say, less than good-looking.
On the other hand, I rarely if EVER see an attractive guy with an unattractive girl.
There are more factors to pickiness than just who you are willing to date. You also have to take into account, for example, how badly you want to date anyone at all.
For instance, I am not too concerned with finding a girlfriend in the first place. I don’t even consider dating almost any of the girls I know, not because of anything about them, but because I just am not too interested in dating anyone. At the same time, I occasionally (about 4 times in my life) meet a girl who I like a lot for some reason and very much want to get to know better.
So, would I be considered extremely picky, because I have only wanted to date 4 of the many females I have known in my life?
Or would I be considered not picky at all, because I am not looking for a girlfriend in the first place?