He’d deserve the credit if he had been responsible for avoiding the consequences. But his usual pattern is to wander into the middle of a disaster created by his own incompetence and then sit there until somebody else rescues him. His rescuers have run from Fred Trump who kept giving Donald money every time he blew a fortune to Mitch McConnell who kept Trump in office when he was impeached.
After he said this, the White House doctor scrambled to put out a letter that IMO raises more questions that it answers.
The main paragraph says this: “After numerous discussions he and I had regarding the evidence for and against the use of hydroxychloroquine, we concluded the potential benefit from treatment outweighed the relative risks.”
Notice what it doesn’t say:
-That the doctor spoke to the President about the President using the drug himself, as opposed to its use in treatment generally.
-That the doctor spoke to the President about the President using the drug as a prophylactic, rather than in the hypothetical event that he became ill.
-That the doctor prescribed the drug to the President.
-That the President is in fact taking the drug.
Is the President is lying about taking this drug? That is probably the least bad possibility at this point. But what if he’s not lying? Where is this man who has personal control over nuclear weapons getting this drug with those side effects? Does he have, in effect, a drug dealer?
He is not actually taking it, he just says he has been. This is just another one of his diversionary headline grabs.
That was the reason for the “and/or” there. Either way it is inexcusable. He is starting to self-implode here and the Dems should be very happy. The stress of the pandemic is magnifying his many personality flaws.
“You wanna say this drug doesn’t work? Hey, I’m taking it myself!”
When he was elected, a buddy and me said that someone needed to take away his Twitter. There is no stopping his ego.
I’m guessing that within forty-eight hours, Trump will say he was telling a joke and the fake news media once again didn’t understand his refined sense of humor.
If he was self-imploding on his own time, I’d feel pity for him.
As it is, he’s self-imploding and taking the United States down with him. So, no, I am not at all happy.
Conservatives need to understand this isn’t some meaningless sports event here. We’re not cheering for our team to beat your team. We’re trying to save everyone, including conservatives, from Donald Trump. It would help if you guys weren’t fighting us so hard as we try to save you.
Diversionary from what? The stock market had its best day in weeks and there was promising news about a vaccine.
Yes, telling everybody that he’s been drinking bleach is probably the next step.
Oh. You said “blech”, not “bleach”. [EMILY_LATELLA] Never mind… [/EMILY_LATELLA]
The Inspector General firing, and subsequent revelations that the matter goes deeper than Pompeo using taxpayer-funded staff to take his dog to the groomer and stuff like that.
I’m not going to waste time over here in IMHO, but here are a few points to consider:
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It’s stupid to unilaterally decree Trump is lying. He obviously truly believes in hydroxychloroquine.
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It is not somehow “illegal” for a physician to prescribe a medication off-label, unless you are talking about a situation like New York, where Cuomo issued an executive order (23 March) banning pharmacists from dispensing HCQ to patients not enrolled in a study.
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There is plenty of pro-HCQ evidence for early use, and for prophylaxis. This is true in vitro, and in practical clinical experience.
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SERMO intermittently summarizes what real-world clinicians around the world think of various therapeutic approaches to SARS CoV 2 infections. Something like a third of their physician interviewees prescribe HCQ for early use.
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In the US, HCQ is widely prescribed in the setting of SARS CoV 2, and many physicians think it should be used early. Many consider it very safe. Safety profiles exist and it is so widely prescribed many physicians think it is unlikely we have somehow been missing these horrible cardiac side-effects across the hundreds of millions of doses already given.
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For some comments from a cardiologist organizing one of the US prophylaxis studies, look up a Healio interview with William O’Neill at Henry Ford in Detroit.
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India loves the stuff. The Indian Council of Medical Research has the official position that HCQ should be used ONLY for the exact setting in which Trump is taking it: prophylaxis of exposed persons. As compared with NY, India is kicking ass; about 1/700th the overall death rate, slums notwithstanding. It’s not as if real-world experience is somehow not providing empiric evidence. Spain, France and Italy are finally getting their pandemic under control; all are now enthusiastic supporters of early HCQ use. UK barely uses it. Take a look at new case numbers from those nations.
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I predict that between now and November, post-exposure prophylaxis using HCQ will be recommended by Fauci. Were I blue, I would not be too hasty ridiculing it now. It will be a bitter pill to swallow if a nutcase with orange hair that I despise turns out to win an election because the public decides he was “smarter” than Sanjay Gupta.
IMHO, of course. And it seems to me a bit petty to decide this should be in IMHO and not GD. Also IMHO.
I will not post again on this in IMHO as the lack of rigor with which comments are challenged is not worth my time.
Okay, one more post here b/c I admire you so much, Little Nemo.
You are dead wrong.
I don’t believe he is taking it and is just saying it as a way to double-down on him hawking the drug. He only brought it up because he wants to appear he has some specialized knowledge and that he is somehow far more intelligent than anyone else. It is part of his symptoms because he has a narcissistic personality disorder:
There are no credible studies indicating that Hydroxychloroquine works as an antiviral and three recent large studies that so that it is totally and utterly ineffective.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/23/health/hydroxychloroquine-new-york-coronavirus-study/index.html
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2012410
Oh, and when I was looking for those links I found these, which were from two more studies.
So that’s 5.
It didn’t work as antiviral fifty years ago when scientists started studying it as an antiviral and it doesn’t work now. There have been large studies that proven it was ineffective as prophylaxis against flu.
However, a lot of people that take it when they are sick with COVID will get better, because most people with COVID do get better regardless. Most people that take it as a prophylaxis won’t get COVID simply because most people don’t get COVID.
And I would like to point out something about the data in the 5 observational studies I linked to. If you look at the RAW numbers, you will see that the mortality and adverse event rates are DRASTICALLY higher in patients treated with Hydroxychloroquine.
The researchers made adjustments to that data to reflect the fact that the treated patients were, in general, a little sicker.
But as th actual data proving the ineffectiveness of this drug comes pouring in, the people that are desperate for a miracle are doubling down. I’ve seen the studies I’ve linked to above posted on social media with captions like “See, Trump was right! It works).
So, I’m sorry that I don’t have fascinating and rigorous data from YouTube videos and “things people are saying”. I only have actual studies and they’re boring,
He was self-imploding half way through his campaign, being on tape saying “grab 'em by the pussy”, attacking a gold star family, insulting McCain… the list of self imploding things he’s said and done would fill a book.
When he said he could kill someone in cold blood on 5th avenue and still keep his voters… that was probably the only truly perceptive thing he’s said. He understands the people who support him, and what terrible people they are. So… no I’m not happy that he’s imploding, because the people who support him don’t care how much of a dangerous moron he is.
Maybe this was brought up but Drs. in some cases give out sugar pills to make people happy when they insist on getting something. I don’t think that is allowed any more or maybe it was never technically legal but it happened.
I have. With more than one doctor. I completely believe that a person enormously more powerful than I am can find a doctor to prescribe whatever he wants to take.
(I, of course, believe that all the drugs I have asked for were medically reasonable choices. But presumably Trump believes the same.)
India only tracks about 20% of total deaths in normal times. I don’t think we can conclude anything at all from numbers published by India. Not because they are lying, but because they don’t know, and probably can’t know.
A friend of a friend reported on India a couple of weeks ago. “I see more funeral pyres than normal. But not enormously more, although it’s hard to tell. There aren’t bodies stacked up on the street like there are in Equador.” That’s the level of data we are dealing with out of India.
Incorrect. Here is some reporting on how India’s COVID-19 death toll, as reported, is incorrect and why.
Based on what qualifications and data do you base your prediction?
America is a country in which a large percentage of the population embraces ignorance and mistrusts science. That those who supported Trump will continue to support Trump is not an indictment of science.
Petty, did you say?
ETA: ninja’s by puzzlegal
HIPAA. He can’t divulge personal medical information.
Has anyone else noticed how the ECG for this resembles his signature?
I will concede that HCQ could be effective; the science is still not settled (though most recent studied lean towards HCQ not being effective (thanks Ann Hedonia)).
But let me throw a point back at you: do you think it’s responsible for him to advocate for this drug at this time?
(And before you say he’s not really “advocating” for this drug, you can’t have it both ways: if he gets credit if the drug works then he gets blame if it does not). Should a president be gambling with the health of the population in this way, or should he leave such advice to doctors and scientists?
LOL. It’s only worth my time to say my piece, and not to hear any of the ways it might get challenged.