I wonder if this will lead to a schism and a whole new religion forming?
Not sure if that would be a hijack for this thread. Something to ponder though.
Perhaps I didn’t state my question clearly. I’m not talking about the hierarchy. Actually, I’m not making a point at all. I’m asking a question. There are 40 evangelical denominations in the US. The leadership of one of them is comprised of raging haters who pass all sorts of terrible policies: no same-sex marriage, babies born out of wedlock will be sacrificed, etc. This denomination has 1,500 individual churches iacross the US. My question is this: are there any of those 1,350 churches who, with their minister, either ignores or actively fights those odious policies?
There are 40 evangelical denominations in the US. I’m interested in objective evidence if there is any.
Did you see this article posted earlier?
I do not think anyone can say “all” evangelical churches are headed this way, but some clearly are.
Which leads to a problem of how to distinguish one from another. If all have the same label then they will all be judged by their worst members.
I did see it, and it infuriated me, as it always does when I read about these hypocritical, Bible-beating anuses. I wish there were one beside me right now I could argue the Bejesus out of him or her.
This NYT piece says 19% of evangelicals did NOT vote for Trump in 2016. It was down to 15% in 2020, according to Pew. I’m guessing 10% in 2024 unless God answers my prayers and Trump kicks it before then…or maybe even if he does kick it. (He’s just pining for the fjords.)
I’d like to hear Trump’s Sermon on the Mount.
Blessed are the donors,
For they pay my legal bills.
Blessed are the Democrats,
For they give my supporters somebody to hate.
Blessed are the Proud Boys,
Because they take the fall for me. …
And so on. In the end, Jesus looked out for others and tried to save yet more others, Trump looks out for only himself, and wants to save only himself. Jesus was giving and generous; Trump is selfish and greedy. There can be no comparison when they are so far apart.
I mean, that can’t be real, can it? Not in any meaningful quantity?
I know it’s Newsweek and not the Onion, but is it possible this is just an overreaction to a handful of extra-nutters?
Because it’s hard to process the cognitive dissonance that would be required to consider the Bible the inerrant word of god AND reject some of Jesus’ teachings.
Is the fact that he has no redeeming qualities and is morally bankrupt seen as being a positive for these people? A cheating, blustery braggard who blatantly lies constantly, but yet is still listened to for some reason. Does that make him more embraceable somehow? God, if your listening, please call this good man home. Amen.
I have no idea of the numbers but I suspect you are correct to think it is only some few at this point.
But, it shows a drift in that direction. The prosperity gospel has been a thing for a while now. It started small and has spread and is a part of this. Cognitive dissonance is already well embedded in the evangelical mind so this really is a small step and not a bridge too far for them I think.
Indeed, I think they MUST go in that direction. The dissonance is so acute that they simply have to change the narrative.
Yes, depending on the policy.
Christianity Today is the long-time leading magazine of American evangelical Protestantism. If you start from my Wikipedia link and go on to ChristianityToday.com, you should find examples.
P.S. The non-evangelical leading Protestant magazine is the Christian Century.
If we leave politics out of it (and we almost always do), the group is fine. I’m derided as “the Democrat” in a ball-breaking way but that’s OK. BTW, I’m actually an Independent. I can take it and as soon as any political discussion gets serious it ends pretty quickly. Like most Trumper’s, they can’t back their beliefs and accusations up with any evidence and resort to Hunter’s laptop or something. I resort to facts. That shuts them down but will never change their minds.
Anyway, the one response I did get (from a guy who agrees Trump is a POS but still better any libtard) was asking if any another Republican ended up as the nominee, would I vote for him. I said that none of the current crop would ever get my vote. Christie is the only one to call Trump what he is but he is such a flip-flopper that he can’t be trusted. He said “I knew it!” and took this as evidence that I am, indeed, a socialist or something.
As an aside, one thing we have in common is that we all have small boats and socialize on them on a regular basis. A couple actually took part in one of those Trump boat parades while we watched from a distance. Talk about a bunch of fanatics! They might as well have had pitchforks and burning torches. A large marina in my area use to have Trump flags flying from every other boat (particularly the $1,000,00 + variety). Last weekend I think I saw one. I’m guessing they’ll reappear next summer.
Well, see, that invokes a pool boy who was fucking a preacher’s wife.
Crazy? Let me explain.
During the 2016 election, there was a lot of consternation amongst the evangelicals about donald. That largely changed when Jerry Falwell, Jr., a leading evangelical leader (his father had been responsible for much of the organizing of the religious right, and had founded Liberty University, one of the most right wing religious schools in the country) gave a full throated endorsement.
Why would he do such a thing? Well, there’s speculation it was because of blackmail.
Falwell’s wife was being regularly screwed by a very young pool boy, and it’s entirely possible this was done with Falwell’s knowledge and approval (he was rumored to like watching). Eventually, that pool boy started receiving lavish gifts and investment opportunities, and people began to suspect what was happening.
The theory is that donald used the threat of publicity to secure Falwell’s endorsement.
I’m causally friendly with the guys who made the documentary all about this:
Only if you know what’s in the Bible.
And have reading comprehension.
Moderating:
Please do not wish/pray death on public figures on the SDMB. This is covered by the SDMB rules.
Do not do this again.
I was not talking about the hierarchy in particular; I was describing the psychology that drives these groups in general. And, as I said, there are individuals–including individual pastors–who actually believe in the teachings of Jesus that encourage doing good for others, and some fraction of those do push back. However, the fear of leaving the group is deeply ingrained; you are most likely to see that pushback when those who believe that way are certain they’re in a large enough group that they can say the other faction left them. That way, they can avoid the fear of leaving and tell themselves that those other people are bad and part of the bad outside.
If the disaffected cannot coalesce into a large enough group, most of them will keep their eyes down, mumble, and pray no one puts them on the spot, even as the rest of the congregation charges off a cliff and carries them along. Because falling off the cliff in the herd is better than being alone in the dark.
It occurs to me that Trump was never likely to ride to his inauguration or his arraignment on a donkey. And as for washing the feet of his disciples…
Maybe as a symbolic gesture, showing that it was a Democratic witch hunt.
I’m cracking myself up this morning trying to picture Trump a) getting down low enough to wash feet and b) Trump getting back up again.
In a nutshell, Jesus good DJT evil. Jesus rode an ass, DJT gropes many asses. If you read the Beatitudes, there isn’t a single thing that Donald would be blessed for. Right wing evangelicals love him because he shares their bigotry and xenophobia and is as good a Christian as they are.
Yes, I have often referred to Exodus 32 in regard to Trump. It’s fun pointing out that God’s response to people worshipping a golden idol was to visit them with a plague.
It’s harder to beat someone with the Bible if you open it first.
Trump hasn’t taken over any religion. But the same internal rot that led to Trump’s elevation to office is also pervasive in the right-wing churches as well.
Trump has been all over the map. Before he was a Republican, he was a Democrat. Before that, he was Reform Party. Before that, a Republican. He holds no allegiance to any party or its platform, and goes wherever he feels benefits him personally.