You just made my day.
Saying that atheism doesn’t have a belief system doesn’t sat that a particular atheist doesn’t have a belief system. And it says nothing about how obnoxious or nice a particular atheist is.
Same goes for religious people. I’ve known Christians who would never dream of telling me my soul was in danger and Christians who were sure I was going right to hell.
The reason atheists are more open on message boards is that we don’t have to worry about our religious brethren ostracizing us. Plus, it is amusing how a message you would see on many church signs without thinking twice becomes obnoxious when an atheist says it. Think of the bus ads in London Dawkins helped to sponsor.
I’m a strong atheist in that I believe that no god exists (though I don’t claim to know it.) But I won’t read a weak atheist out of atheism.
Well, Rove is so evil that if he stepped into a church he’d burst into flame anyway.
Y’know people, can’t Donals be just a bad, lousy, lame excuse for a believer?
I mean, in this thread it looks like a serious excluded middle between intense, open, commited piety and “oh he must be an atheist just putting on an act”, being applied to two presidents here.
To me, Trump seems to be like millions of other people, someone who was brought up in a church because his parents made him go, but who as an adult feels as long as he’s not making a living off of actual murder he’s doing all he’s obligated to by making sure his family is in a position to prosper. As someone else put it, he comports himself as a visitor, not a participant, at services.
Meanwhile, OTOH the way some people seem to desperately crave for Obama to be atheist… come the Hell on, whatever happened to taking people on their word for what they identify as?
I mean, sure, if you want to accuse him of being just as much or even more of a means-to-an-end manipulative phony, go right ahead just don’t say “but I’ll grant his case justifies it!” Strictly speaking Trump’s mere “yeah-whatever satisfies the base” indifferentism would not be nearly as hypocritical as Obama earnestly faking involvement with the Black church for advancement’s sake, and some people would like that just fine as a takedown.
That still requires wondering about yourself. Trump doesn’t wonder about anything, beyond maybe the size of some blonde’s tits.
I’ve developed some strange and sometimes irritating (to others) habits in learning how to manage an untrustworthy brain. One thing in particular I’ve learned is that I can easily misread the intent behind written words and go straight into attack mode when there was absolutely no offence offered. It’s an unfortunate instinct because I really hate when people read things I write with the least generous interpretation possible. So rather than bite right away I seek clarification. Your OP, for instance, reads to me as an equation of atheism with biblical ignorance and propensity toward sinfulness. As an atheist who is neither wholly ignorant of the text nor a particularly nasty person I am still uneasy with that premise. But I know no other way to suss the intent of the words you chose.
So if I am being generous, I’d say you’re missing that knowledge about me: why I insist on clarity. My instinct, however, is to believe your OP overly smarmy and your continued resistance to clarify your point as disingenuousness. It’s becoming, for me, an amusing little game to decide what I think you’re on about here. Clearly, the problem rests with me because nobody else is perceiving bullshit to call you out on. I can live with that. I spend a fair bit of time confused by people.
That makes the most sense.
Atheists, or non-theists, are as varied in their own interpretation of the whole thing, and their reasons for it, as are believers.
I believe it was St. Anselm who said, “God is that than which nothing greater can be imagined.”
I suspect that for ol’ Donald, nothing greater than himself can be imagined.
Therefore, restricting the universe of discourse to Trump and possibly God, it’s clear that Trump believes in God, God being himself, and therefore neither Trump nor God qualify as atheists. QED.
I looked at my OP again, and examined my own intentions. I think the title was intended to creat interest, the last sentence was intended to encourage response, and all the stuff in between was just filler. I didn’t put much thought into it.
Here’s a little more clarity from me: I’m an atheist who is neither wholly ignorant of the text nor a particularly nasty person. The reason I don’t care much whether Trump is an atheist, is that if so, it makes him and those who support him a little more ridiculous, but I’d rather have nothing in common with him. So it’s kind of a wash.
That may not be strictly true, but it sort of fits. Trump wants to be the big boss and to be seen as without flaw.
What do I think? I think atheists catch enough flack without him being on the team. He’s a tiny pathetic man and that’s identity enough.
I disagree. An atheist is exactly someone who doesn’t believe in any gods. One version of atheist is the positive atheist who asserts there is no god.
Agreed. If he’s an atheist, it is through apathy or “I’m too smart for that”. If he’s a believer, it is a weak “that’s the way it is” believer who hasn’t put any depth into studying Christianity or Christian beliefs of any sort.
He is also an opportunistic Christian - his “faith” is just a ploy for votes. He’s a big phony whether he nominally believes or not.
It is amusing and ironic that the atheists overwhelmingly voted for the Christian candidate over a possibly atheist one. But the possibly atheist one publicly proclaimed Christian belief, so that’s a wash.
Trump is a prick and an asshole. Doesn’t mean he can’t also be an atheist.
Well that is a Revelation indeed, funniest thing I have heard all day 
So HE brought down the walls of Jericho too? The man never ceases to marvel me, I thought his speciality was building walls, not tearing them down.
Concerning the question, I agree with all those who said HE is too *thinkfaul *to know what atheism is or to care about it at all, he probably would not understand the question. The word atheism is probably too long for his attention span anyway.
Already revisited in post #65.
I don’t think it’s quite a “wash”, and I think the irony is pretty astonishing, really, because Trump’s profession of Christian devotion is so obviously bogus. We’re not talking about discovering that Presidential candidate the Reverend Nehemiah Scudder secretly cavorts with porn stars and is almost certainly just a cynical demagogue who doesn’t give a single solitary hoot in hell about religion by, say, reading the Rev. Scudder’s secret diary, or having a foreign power hack his private e-mails. Trump’s lack of any real Christian values, and the shallowness of his supposed profession of faith, was and is screamingly apparent. From “Two Corinthians” to the time Trump said
And, you know, the man’s entire life: This is the darling of the Religious Right in America?!? :dubious: and :smack:
*To be clear, as a godless heathen myself, I don’t actually think that’s a terribly bad thing to say. Really, it’s one of the least offensive things Trump has ever said; it does sort of acknowledge the possibility that he has maybe done things wrong in the past; and from a Secular Humanist point of view, reacting to doing wrong by “trying to do a better job from there” and “just trying to make it right” rather than by asking for the forgiveness of a (nonexistent) God is quite a reasonable attitude to take. But it doesn’t seem like a very Christian thing to say, and it sure as hell isn’t an Evangelical Christian thing to say at all.
You should show your friend this at Amazon, Clovenhoof and the Trump of Doom and make him read the first chapter displayed in Look Inside. His head will explode.
That classification might be a little confusing in a verbal conversation. I am now picturing him dressed in black and white, wearing a wimple.
Having dabbled in Buddhism, I think he is a Hungry Ghost.
I agree that Trump just doesn’t think that much about it.
I am more surprised (though I have heard it often) about Obama. To me he seems just like the liberal mainline Protestants who go to my Church (though I’m ELCA and he is UCC). It’s readily apparent to me. Though, then again, a lot of right wing Evangelicals think we in the ELCA are basically atheist anyways.