No, not really; though I’m sure you disagree, we feel that Jon Bel Edawrds received legitimate criticism for signing an atrocious piece of legislation, and the (D) by his name doesn’t make him immune to it.
We’re never going to agree on abortion, but I will leave you with this. The kinds of laws that you seem to be supporting are exactly the kinds of laws that attract the very worst of the republican party you seem disconcerted with. If more self-identified conservatives would simply nuance their position a little, that would help them reclaim their party. But until then, I hate to say it, but you’re stuck with Trump. Donald Trump is your guy and he represents your politics, whether you want to admit it or not.
As a general rule I would agree with you. To think this way in all cases would be silly. But surely you would agree that it depends on the candidates?
As an extreme example, if I support a run of the mill centrist candidate and my neighbors support Jeffrey Dahmer, then I’m going to think that my neighbors are terrible people.
For something closer to the real world; if my neighbors’ preferred candidate supports a policy of separating families as a way of discouraging asylum seekers, then I’m not going to think very highly of those neighbors.
Right. When there are so many options, if they continue support a candidate/official who bragged about sexual assault and violating the consent of women, then I’m not going to think that they really value women and girls very highly. If they continue to support a candidate/official who spent years spreading evidence-free racist conspiracy theories, then I’m going to assume they’re, at best, tolerant of racism. If they continue to support a candidate/official who flippantly calls for their political opponents to be jailed, then I’m going to assume they don’t put much value on a serious and fair justice system. And so on.
An update, my friend (and I really do consider her to be a friend) posted her reply that she will be single-issue in 2020, and she wants an alternative to both Trump and Biden. I suggested she go Libertarian. She’ll get her pro-choice candidate (although she won’t get public funding for any healthcare) and where she lives, a big Libertarian turnout will probably hurt Trump more than Biden.
Thank you for your response. To answer your question; yes, I could vote for such a Democrat…against Trump. But in all honesty, up until the Republican Party entered into bizarro world 3 years ago, any “mainstream” Republican would get my vote because I will agree with them on my two main issues (the other being gun rights). Especially with the Democrats taking harder and harder lines and litmus tests on these two issues.
Trump infuriates me, as a conservative Evangelical-style Republican. I can not vote for him; I will not vote for him. The last two or three local elections I did not vote for the Republican, despite their pro-life and pro-gun bona fides. (That’s a separate issue and it relates almost 100% to the current Republican Party platform on immigration.) But aside from my opinion of Trump as (pick whatever adjectives you want), a Democrat candidate has to EARN my vote with a position on my two main issues I can look at myself in the mirror and vote for. Used to be there *were *Democrats who had A ratings from the NRA, and who had pro-life voting records. Where are they now? Today’s Democrats obviously don’t want my vote. They don’t get it by default because the other guy is worse. I vote my conscience. I know this pisses a lot of people off, but that’s where I’m at.
No he does not. He represents my PARTY (likely my soon to be former Party), but he does NOT represent my politics. You don’t know my politics, asahi, except what I’ve disclosed in these few posts here. My issues with Trump defy simple boxes. I can’t even begin to make a list. Even on some issues that I might happen to “agree” with him on…what am I really agreeing with? When the man changes his mind from year to year; from month to month; from day to day. How can I trust him to represent my interests when I don’t trust him to have any thought-out political positions or moral center to develop them?
For what it’s worth, I have had these conversations with my family. My sister, my mom, my 18-year-old niece. Heck, even my wife (who is an immigrant!). They all voted for Trump. I’ve told them the are being misled. I’ve told them they are being conned. I’ve told them that one day they will wake up and realize who this man really is, and they will be disappointed. I’m especially concerned about my niece, as when you are that age and your heroes fail you, it can be quite devastating.
So I’ve done my part to try to convince them not to vote for Trump. But that’s a long shot away from saying we’re all going to vote for some “typical” pro-abortion Democrat. That’s just not going to happen.
The proven way to reduce abortions is a combination of comprehensive sex education and widespread availability of contraception – i.e. reduce the demand for abortions (unwanted pregnancies). One party is actually pushing for those policies, while the other party generally fights against them.
I understand what you’re saying, that you disagree with Trump on almost everything else, which is laudable. However…
You are effectively allowing your objection on one issue to effectively cancel out all of your other positions. You can join a third party if you want, but that probably won’t help much in terms of keeping Trump out of office.
There’s a reason that Trump and the GOP are taking such an extreme, uncompromising, and frankly unreasonable position on abortion. It attracts deplorable people. I commend you for not joining them, but I think a very serious problem this country has - and I think I can say this with regard to some on the left as well - is that ideological purity has blinded us. The only way a society can have good things is to allow some space for compromise. Without that, then we lose the ability to operate in good faith.
Actually, voting third-party is like either not voting or like voting 1/2 for both major parties. It’s only half as effective at removing the offending candidate as voting for the other major party would be, but it is not equally as effective at keeping the odious person in power as actually voting for him would be.
He’s a politician, trying to win the Dem nomination in a time where the Dem party has moved a long ways to the left. He’s doing the amoral, politically-savvy thing.
The Biden abortion stuff is interesting in light of the argument I have been making on the abortion threads.
My first sighting this season of a Gabbard supporter! I knew there must be some out there somewhere, but I had not seen any until this moment. It’s as exciting as I expected–and as hilarious.
Agreed. Minnesota has added my wife and me to its electorate since 2016. We are not letting him win, I promise!
But yeah: the 55% “will not vote for him under any circumstance” are not changing their minds. Regardless of the circumstance.
About 74% of eligible voters didn’t vote for him last time. Of course about 74% of eligible voters didn’t vote for Clinton. He won with only 26.3% of all eligible voters and she lost with 26.5% of them. Not bothering to vote won the popularity contest by far at nearly 46%.
Will not vote for him under any circumstance is not enough.
Yes, I was in fact speaking of innumeracy. Thinking that 55% of possible voters saying they are going to not vote for a candidate is the same as 55% saying they are going to vote for the Democratic candidate is a serious lack of understanding the numbers.