So can you find a single example of someone going to jail for touching a girl once through her clothing? I bet you can’t find one and anyone in jail is either a repeat offender who tried it as often as possible or did a lot worse than just touching through clothing.
No, but there’ve been questions on the board as to whether Trump should/could be arrested for sexual assault because of it as well as very strong sentiment that he should be. And the more widely these types of notions take hold, the more likely they are to become reality.
Sure, but he has multiple accusers so he’s potentially a repeat offender and IMO it’s more serious because it’s abusing a position of power. Putting Trump on trial for this (if there is enough evidence) doesn’t mean that every single person who touches a woman once through her clothing will go to jail. I think you’d be hard put to find even the most radical feminist that would argue for jail time for a single offence of this nature.
But the hew and cry has gone up for him to be arrested for sex assault from day one, before any of the others have come to light. And of course given that the election is so close, one wonders why they haven’t come forth before during the campaign. In other words, the motives of these other women are suspect.
As for whether anyone in the real world would argue for jail time for a first offense of this kind, I’ve seen it suggested/demanded over and over again on various online news sites, as well as here, when it comes to Trump at least.
so if bill cosby was running for office the first victim who ever said anything was supposed to just man up get over it ?
Discussed pretty thoroughly in this thread: Shouldn’t Trump be Arrested?
It was actually the perfect response. She “answered” the question while looking human and compassionate, while completely bypassing complimenting Trump or giving any soundbite that could run in the papers the next day.
I think a lot of people forget that the Clintons and the Trumps used to be quite chummy and that Ivanka a Chelsea are friends (or at least they used to be).
You’re still not getting why Trump’s case is different. 1) abuse of power to intimidate women into silence 2) repeat offender.
I don’t think anyone ever thought Trump has only groped one girl one time in his entire life, his own statements made clear what he felt he could get away with:
“Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.” “Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.”
Now you see the difference?
Does under the skirt but with the crotch of panties intruding between his short fingers and her p***y count as “over her clothing”? That’s what Trump did to a stranger on an airplane.
IANAL and won’t comment on “prison sentence” but surely this should spark “outrage.” I wouldn’t want such a blatant asshole washing my windows, but you’re happy to contemplate him as POTUS? :eek:
[QUOTE=Donald J. Trump, Jr.]
You can’t be negotiating billion-dollar deals if you can’t handle, like, you know… But listen — there’s a place where you have to draw the line — but today the stuff you get in trouble for…
[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure exactly what level of sexual assault is allowed under the compass of “like, you know”(*) — beyond forcible tongue kissing and lewd remarks — but at least Junior will “draw the line” somewhere. I guess if he discovers the stranger he’s groping isn’t wearing panties, he’ll beat a hasty retreat and apologize?
-
- In Trump’s universe is there a middle ground between “kindergarten teacher” and “negotiating billion-dollar deals”? Since the woman he assaulted was flying first-class was it legitimate to assume she was negotiating billion-dollar deals and therefore available for forcible finger fucking?
I don’t know about Trump Sr.
But his son looks like the embodyment of Patrick Bateman from American Psycho.
To put this into further perspective: 10 million women is 3% of the population of America. It’s 6% of the female population of America. And how many people follow Kelly Oxford online? I’d never heard of her before this, and I have a hard time imagining that her number of followers is a significant fraction of the population. For her to get that many responses that quickly pretty much means not only that a significant fraction of her female followers have had this happen to them, but that each of them has had many friends to whom it’s also happened and to whom they forwarded the article. This isn’t something rare, from a woman’s point of view; it’s something that very nearly all women have dealt with.
Is he Uday or Qusay? (with a nod to Bill Maher for that one.)
His hands are so small, those women probably didn’t feel anything anyway.
:d&r:
I guarantee you that the people who are downplaying Trump’s assaults are the same sort of folk who would take the law into their own hands if anyone tried it with their daughters, wives, or sisters. Maybe that’s what they’re really arguing here – liberals are just a bunch of whiny pussies who lack violent tendencies like good Americans.
I was telling my wife how I kind of agree with Trump Jr. If we really want to stop sexual harassment, we need to be catching kids young, teaching them as young as 5 that it’s not okay to put their hands on other people’s bodies without permission. Hardcore kindergarten teachers are where it’s at. It’s too late for assholes like Trump Jr., but good early education may be the key to effective reduction in sexual harassment.
My wife corrected me. Here’s the full quote in response to a comment about harassment:
Turns out that he doesn’t even think kindergarten teachers are part of the workforce. Huh.
I still kind of agree with him. If you can’t handle some of the basic stuff that’s become a problem in the workforce today, you DON’T belong in the workforce. That is, if you can’t handle the fact that sexual harassment is a no-no, your ass should be fired.
The less said about Starving Artist’s appalling simultaneous defense of sexual assailants and pining for a mythological past the better.
There is a lot to unpack here, but thank you for respondng.
Ok. First of all, Oprah has the same handful of the same stuff, yet it wouldn’t even occur to you that a crime has been committed? So it’s not the handful of genitalia that makes it more threatening if it’s a guy. Additionally, We may not have the same dangly bits, but a rough grab of genitalia can still be painful for a woman. Or roughly grabbing breast tissue. Second, most sexual harassers aren’t going for chaste, close-mouthed pecks. I have literally been licked by a guy trying to get his tongue in there. So assume that Oprah is doing the same thing Typo is is, in order to jam her tongue down your throat. Still not a crime? Or no, because a woman isn’t as physically threatening as a guy doing it? When a man assaults a woman in this manner it would be moure like Typo assaulting you, if for no other reason than the man is more physically dominating and stronger than the woman. All the disgust you feel at being assaulted by a less-cuddly Mr Clean is the same disgust and visceral horror that I would experience being assaulted in the same way Trump, Jr or Sr.
You knew the area was being videotaped, and you know the guys who worked there? This allowed you an increased sense of security, right? How many corporate offices and conference rooms do you believe have security cameras all the time, and what if “the guy who works there “ - the one you know- is the one threatening you? And when this threat of violence arose for you, you were confident that should physical contact be made, you would be absolutely in the right to press charges. Yet you are very much acting as if physical contact when the intent is sexual and the victim is a woman should NOT be prosecuted. She should “take the hit - because that’s what grownups do.” Except a revolting amount of abuse seems to happen not to grownups but damn near children. My daughter is in her early 20s, and while I am pretty confident she can take the hit and give back more pain, it remains a fear of mine that something will happen, and she may well freeze up and “let it happen.” Why? Because women are conditioned to be “nice.”
And sometimes, they were raped. “Good reads” can be wrong. Some women were damaged by that system. And one of the things that has made me so angry recently was a conservative man who told a reporter “One guy’s sexual assault is another man’s flirtation.” Defining it from his point of view - you’ll notice that how the woman feels about the action is so irrelevant as to ahve been discarded completely. A woman’s body is not some foreign land to invade as far as you can before being rebuffed. There are many reasons why a woman may be unable to resist the onslaught of the hands and lips and tongue - yet, it doesn’t matter, as long as “she lets you do it.” That’s a generic you, by the way, not you you.
It’s bizarre to me that you have no problem with this display of bodily autonomy, but find today’s standards of affirmative consent to be so puzzling. I guess it comes back to “letting” a guy do something. Iff he doesn’t get smacked, then it’s allowed.
You seem very much concerned with the financial end of the situation for a man guilty of assault. You don’t seem too concerned about the woman who may lose her job if she doesn’t play along with what her boss demands. Does she deserve to lose everything she is worked for if she doesn’t want to date her boss? I don’t believe that a woman is irrevocably wronged and traumatized if she is assaulted, but she deserves to be respected and this manner of sexual harassment and assault is profoundly disrespectful, and sometimes can be quite damaging. No one is claiming it’s always permanent damage, but why are you arguing for the right for even temporary damage to be inflicted?
It was all right, but actually, the perfect response was the one the SNL writers came up with six days later…
Also, women worth protecting have a man ready and able to do so informallly. Bring the kind of woman men are moved to protect is a primary responsibility. If a woman has no man willing to do that, it’s inherently evidence that it doesn’t need to be done.
Once again, the free market does a better job than the government at allocating scarce resources.