Impeachments cannot be pardoned.
Politico this morning had an interesting write-up about the recording:
It started on Saturday when Trump and his team reached out to talk to Raffensperger, who, according to an adviser, felt he would be unethically pressured by the president. Raffensperger had been here before: In November he accused Trump ally and South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham of improperly exhorting him to meddle in the election to help Trump win Georgia. Graham later denied it.
So why not record the call with the president, Raffensperger’s advisers thought, if nothing else for fact-checking purposes. “This is a man who has a history of reinventing history as it occurs,” one of them told Playbook. “So if he’s going to try to dispute anything on the call, it’s nice to have something like this, hard evidence, to dispute whatever he’s claiming about the secretary. Lindsey Graham asked us to throw out legally cast ballots. So yeah, after that call, we decided maybe we should do this.”
I want Trump to be indicted for his crimes. If he gets tossed out via impeachment then Pence becomes president, giving him the opportunity to pardon Trump.
If impeachment led to possible jail time then I’d feel differently.
There is absolutely no scenario where Trump ends up in jail. That would require Democrats to have a backbone and Republicans to have an ounce of morality.
[modding] First let me say, Stop attacking each other. We are all in basic agreement arguing about details. Yes Raffensperger acted well here and yes he has been doing his damnedest to prevent Blacks and other Dems from voting.[/modding]
I have several questions. Why Georgia? Changing Georgia wouldn’t change the outcome of the election. Therefore, I infer that there were probably similar phone calls to PA, MI, and WI. Second, I think Trump is not as stupid or deranged as he appears. He has skated as close as possible to such criminal activities as suborning vote fraud, extortion, without quite crossing the line. “Your daughter is beautiful; wouldn’t it be a shame if she were raped and murdered?” Finally, why did he wait so long? It is well after the time that anything can be done about it.
It’s been reported in the news this morning that Trump’s team actually made 18 previous attempts to call the Georgia Secretary of State since the November election, but that Raffensperger was understandably worried that “he would be unethically pressured by the president” during such a conversation, so he had been avoiding the President’s calls until Saturday.
If the House impeaches repeatedly and the Senate does nothing then I fail to see what has been accomplished beyond the first impeachment. It changes nothing. It accomplishes nothing new beyond the first.
Again, we seem to disagree on this.
Really? What “good” has come of the last two impeachments? Unless the Senate does something to penalize the president it accomplishes… what? Clinton faced no consequences (not that I agreed with that particular impeachment). Trump faced no consequences (other than, perhaps, it being a factor in losing an election but if so it was not the only factor). Other than a statement that one party really disapproves of the other, which we already knew. It’s already painfully apparent who continues to suck up to Trump, or fears him, and who doesn’t.
I’d rather lobby to get assistance to our desperate fellow citizens. I have too many neighbors who are in fear of a place to live, warmth in the winter, and food for their families.
What I don’t understand is why you are so focused on impeachment as the only course of action. Absolutely we should not stop working towards a better nation, but if impeachment didn’t work to stop this mess (and it didn’t) then we need to look for something else.
Yes. We are the brink of fascism in this country, with Trump as dictator for life. Because there really are people like that, who believe only the folks on their side deserve rights, votes, or anything else.
^ There is a fresh idea.
I’m guessing Trump never moved somewhere new without burning all his bridges behind him and doesn’t realize that most people don’t act like that.
I dunno. I think his actions are best explained by the understanding that he is a liar and a bully. To this point, he has NEVER been fully called to task for such behavior. To the contrary, he has profited considerably. I think the fact that he has never really paid a price for his bullying and dishonest tactics has caused him to believe he is infallible and untouchable - which I suspect may well be the case.
I hope he and his family/enablers are dogged by litigation and financial challenges and losses for years to come, but I wouldn’t bet on it. I think the true test will be the extent to which other people are craven and/or stupid enough to think they will profit from stroking his ego and adding to his bank accounts.
I thought it was going to be this one.
It might not “force” them so pass their own versions, but it would highlight who is actually responsible for nothing getting done. Have the House leader make a clear public statement that any bill passed by the Senate will at least be put up for a vote in the House, and then sit back and wait. Every month or so, publish a list of every Senate bill that’s been forwarded to the House for consideration.
How many months of “The Senate passed no bills, so no bills were considered by the House” do you think it would take before at least a few Republican Voters start to clue in that the GOP Senate is the real problem here? Some of them are already starting to realize this after the stimulus check debacle, so let’s keep pushing on that.
Sure, this plan might not work - but what they’re currently doing already doesn’t work. They might as well at least try something different.
I think the chief purpose is to set a “the dominos are falling!” narrative, that provides at least somewhat plausible cover for some sort of crazy last minute decertification attempt by the other state legislatures (“look at what happened in Georgia! How can we be certain of our results?”) , or allowing the House & Senate to do the same on the 6th when the electoral votes are opened.
Georgia is also the state where Trump has the most political leverage, with an active Senate race, and a Governor at risk of being primary’d at the next election.
Plus, there are reports that Trump had similar conversations with all the other states they’re contesting. Georgia appears to be the only one clever enough to record the meeting, alas.
If not obvious this is a joke…
Latest news from Pennsylvania. The Attorney General found boxes of Trump ballots. It turns out they contain 81,661 ballots. Trump wins by 1 vote.
Republicans are okay with this.
Suppose Trump won a second term in 2024. Could he be impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors committed in his first term?
It’s pretty clear that the grounds for impeachment are whatever Congress decides are grounds for impeachment. So, yes? Probably? Here’s the entirety of what the Constitution says:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
That being said, one branch of government removing someone from another branch from office for offenses in a previous term after the voters have already decided to discount those offenses and re-elect him anyway seems somewhat…problematic, as far as upholding the norms of a representative government goes.
I agree that House Dems have not found a truly effective solution for Republican obstructionism in the Senate, but I’m afraid this is not it, either. (I don’t think there is one, honestly.) Aside from the constitutional issues already raised re: spending bills, taking this approach hands the whole agenda to the Republicans and forces Dems to play defense on every issue. It makes no sense. You think Mitch McConnell is going to be like “Gee, the Dems really have us here - better pass something now!” Of course he won’t. He’ll obstruct like he always does and accuse Dems of not doing their jobs, with no shame, no sense of hypocrisy, nothing. Or he’ll send ludicrous poison bills that he knows have no chance of passing. Meanwhile he controls the conversation and Dems are just sitting on their hands, waiting like passive sheep. The more I type the more terrible it seems. At least over the summer as R Senators dithered about COVID relief, Dems could - and repeatedly did - publicly remind everyone that they had passed the CARES act which included direct relief for families and businesses.
At least then, we could point out how ludicrous they are. “THIS is what Senate Republicans think is reasonable” isn’t a bad headline.
And after all that, the Republicans haven’t (yet) lost the Senate, and actually picked up seats in the House. So this plan is a non-starter, too.
I’m not married to my plan, and as you say, it might not work, but they’ve got to try something new. I’ll consider any new strategy, I’m just at a loss as to what else they might try.
Can Barron sing?
SomeBODY once told me
J’Biden’s gonna beat me
I ain’t the most popular prez