Yes, because urban.
But the question is why that’s so, and people are suggesting that’s because of a deliberate attempt to suppress the minority vote.
Personally I suspect that it has to do with increased minority turnout for presidential elections - and particularly those involving Obama - which meant that resources allocated based on patterns in other years didn’t suffice.
It is a very poor way of looking at the world when a person thinks that their particular viewpoint is the only “correct” viewpoint that could exist. Morals are, after all, not absolutes, generally speaking. Thus, for example, on the immigration issue, the failure of liberals to acknowledge that people in the country without proper authorization create problems that would justify someone adopting a position supporting the removal of large numbers of those people makes it difficult to resolve the issue of immigration (in much the same way that a conservative who won’t accept the possibility of ANY of such people remaining in compromise does). Dismissing anyone who advocates removing “illegal immigrants” on the basis that they are “racist” for advocating that view may make the liberal feel superior, but it over-simplifies the problem, insults the perfectly rational conservative, and does nothing to create a valid dialogue for change.
And don’t just dismiss this statement, please. This is EXACTLY the point that my conservative acquaintances make, which is motivating their political advocacy. As Shodan points out, that advocacy has now resulted in a very strong Republican head-lock politically in the country, including in places that traditionally have done well in electing Democrats to power. Some people here are trying to tell y’all why that’s happening, and you’re stuffing your fingers in your ears and just refusing to listen. If that continues, you’ll continue to lose power when, by all reasonable metrics, you should be gaining it.
Right, and there is little to no evidence of that. Even k9bfriender’s cite said that most of the problems were no different than they have been in past elections.
That could well be. Since minority turnout was lower this year than in 2012 and 2008, it would suggest that the problems would be less this time.
Regards,
Shodan
I was not saying that there were problems compared to previous years. I just said that there were long lines.
I may have allowed the erroneous assumption to be made that the lines were only for black people, and for that I apologize. No, the lines are for everyone that lives in those districts.
My entire point was, if you look at previous years, with many news reports as to long lines, if you look back to 2004 in ohio, it is easy to find 10+ hour lines in franklin country, for instance, that it is understandable that those who have spent time in lines in the past, or those who feel that there will be long lines on election day, may not be as inclined to vote. 2008 had long lines in urban areas. 2012 had long lines.
It was not I that brought up that the black vote did not come out in as large a force as it did for obama. I was pointing out that it was not necessarily that they did not like clinton that made them stay home, just that they did not like her as much as Obama, they did not like her enough to stand in line for hours to vote.
Now, I imagine that many of your on this board do not wait in long lines to vote. I know I didn’t. Shodan has implied that he did not. Now, while I like to believe that even facing a multiple hour wait in order to cast my vote, I would still do my civic duty, but I don’t know that. It is a challenge I have not been presented with. It sounds like it is not a challenge that many of you have faced either.
For that reason, I do not judge those who do not choose to vote who live in districts that have had long lines in the past. If you want to say they stayed home because they hated Clinton, that’s your opinion. I personally feel they stayed home because they felt there would be long lines to wait to vote, as well as the threats of voter harassment that Trump was throwing about before the election.
Anyway, I still have 250 Christmas cards to label, sign, and fold into their envelopes, so I don’t have time to do a research project for you. If you don’t believe me that there were long lines then it does not matter how many articles I link to for you. I am sure that if you wish to quell your ignorance, you are perfectly capable of using the google machine on your own time.
You also claimed that Trump threatened to harass voters and suppress turnout. Now you are claiming there were long lines, so what Trump said must not have suppressed turnout.
Funny how the long lines in 2004 did not suppress the vote in 2008, nor did the long lines in 2008 suppress the vote in 2012. But the lines in 2012 suppressed the vote in 2016.
Regards,
Shodan
I’m really glad to have found this thread. I’m going to just be brave and come out and say it.
I voted for Trump.
I guess it’s to be expected. I am a middle-aged white male making decent money. so of course i must be racist, right? I mean, clearly, I would have no other basis to look at the candidates available and pick Trump as the best choice if racism wasn’t the driving factor in my life. That’s the issue here I think. It’s not that I thought Trump was great, or even good. It’s that I felt he was the best available. It’s not that I hate minorities, it’s that I think the security and prosperity of the nation depend on having real, enforced borders. It’s not that I think the poor shouldn’t get healthcare, it’s that I think Obamacare didn’t work well (and I’m mad at Republicans for that too). It’s not that I like where Trump might take us, it’s that I like where we are even less.
Now, Democrats, I think you should take that to heart. I’m not saying Trump isn’t a poor choice. I’m saying if you want to win an election, you’re going to need to listen to what the people are telling you. Yes, there’s a lot of racism in this world. You should fight against them; I stand with you. But just because someone didn’t vote for your candidate doesn’t mean that person is racist. Maybe there are other issues at play here. Ignore that and I think the Democratic party will continue to lose elections. But you can also open your mind, listen to the valid and invalid views others have, and adjust your position as you deem appropriate. Who knows? You may even learn something new.
Considering Trump’s highly questionable past, his current picks for the Cabinet, and his almost daily tweeting/temper tantrums, the next time you decide to cut off your nose to spite your face might you find a way to do so that doesn’t fuck over the rest of the country?
See what I mean? You didn’t address any of the issues I had. You just insulted my point of view. I did not cut off my nose to spite my face. I made a judgement based on my values. I decided some issues are more important than others. I would rather not have the tweets, but I think national security is more important. I am disappointed in the cabinet choices but feel that avoiding a shooting war with Russia in Syria is more important.
What’s been really great about this whole fiasco is that it shows who the real bigots in this country are.
The ones at the Trump rallies using Nazi slogans to harass the press?
Yes. They are also bigots. So are the ones using the horrible behavior of others to excuse their own.
Now I know what to get you for Christmas-a dictionary!
How about an argument on its own merits instead?
I think I’ll wait until you get that dictionary.
Or does that make me even more of a “bigot”?
Well, I guess I’ll thank you for it. I’ll even praise your wit, far sharper than mine.
Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way, would you be willing to take on the challenge? Maybe the problem here is that there are many among the democrats who seek to “correct” instead of “engage.”
Very well said. My original intent was to support what you’re saying here. I did not want to vote Trump. I’m asking Democrats and Republicans to field better candidates! I honestly thought this was all impossible. Can you imagine my disgust with my own vote? The only way I could make myself vote at all was to keep telling myself I live in California and my vote wouldn’t actually hurt anything. That’s a horrible place for the U.S. to be!
Your “challenge” is a false dilemma, because I don’t recall where anyone called you a bigot in the first place-we didn’t even know who voted for until you posted your persecution screed just a little bit ago.
How has the country been “fucked over”?
Ah-the Oliver Hardy Defense(aka “Now look what you made me do!”). For all your feeble protests, the only one in that voting booth was you, and you decided you would rather have Trump as President. You were o.k. with his very troubling past, his dubious business dealings and the way he treats anyone not in his small family circle. Suck it up and take responsibility.
Hm, new word for me.
So let me clarify for you. No one here called me a bigot and I did not mean to imply that someone here had. However, I have heard many in the mainstream media take the position that a vote for Trump is stupid and can only be explained by racism. I took your response to my screed as a further example of that. Maybe that was unfair of me.
Where this applies to the OP: I don’t think this election points to a sudden uptake of racism in this country. There is definitely racism in the U.S. but I think it’s no more or less than in the last couple elections. I do think that racism is being blamed when the issue is something else. I think Democrats would be able to perform better in future elections if they were to stop blaming bigotry and start listening to other points of view. Isn’t that the benefit of multiculturalism?