:shrug: right place, right time
Also, I agree with the point made by the Atlantic writer who wrote about Obama in an article released yesterday: without 8 years of Obama, we don’t have Trump today.
This suggests that progressivism is going to be stopped by our flawed electoral system that has enabled the minority to take control of the federal government. That’s an age old mistake conservatives continue to make.
It suggests that it has been stopped, and will remain stopped for at least the next several years. That’s not a mistake; it’s reality.
And I doubt that the flawed electoral system is the reason why the GOP holds the House, Senate, 30 states and 31 governor’s offices.
Regards,
Shodan
It’s funny to watch the liberal posters here prove the exact point the OP was making with their rhetoric. Everything that conservative politicians and voters are espousing is identified with pejorative terms. There’s not even the hint of consideration that the positions Republicans are taking on issues could have any legitimacy.
This mindset had a LOT to do with the loss of the White House in this election. As a middle-of-the-road moderate, I have friends on both sides of my thinking. Those who are more conservative in thought have chafed long over the fact that those of more liberal thought act as if conservative thinking is inherently morally wrong. They have become increasingly motivated to do something about that. Some who have not voted for a presidential candidate their entire life were motivated to go out and vote for Mr. Trump.
I live in a state that is quite conservative in outlook. The Democratic Party, thanks to a re-alignment that was still in progress when I arrived in 2008, has steadily become almost impotent here (my US Representative was still a Democrat at the time, an older member of a prominent local family; he was summarily kicked to the curb in the 2010 election, after which no one would claim that the re-alignment has not been completed). And, yet, despite this fact, my neighbors are not evil people. They are not homophobic, xenophobic, racist, sexist, warmongering cretins. They are simply people, many of whom happen to have relatively “conservative” viewpoints on social issues and foreign policy (to say nothing about there viewpoint on taxation). Some of them have some of these traits, yes. But, with respect, I know liberals who have traits that are less than savory, and that doesn’t cause me to tag them with pejoratives and dismiss their views.
Liberals running the Democratic Party might consider that humble pie is a dish best eaten when one is on a losing streak…
I know a lot of “good” Conservatives like this. They don’t go out and harass others on behalf of the race or sexual orientation, or organize to pass laws against them…but they also stay quiet and stand aside when their louder and more radical members do the harassing and restrictive law-passing. No they aren’t evil, but…
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”-Edmund Burke
So millions of black voters don’t even bother to go out and vote for Hillary/against Trump, and it’s conservatives’ fault for doing nothing?
Regards,
Shodan
I wasn’t addressing that issue. I was responding to the previous post-which was rather evident by the fact that I quoted him in my post. Do try to keep up.
I recognize that you don’t want to address the issue, but it is a perfectly valid point nonetheless. Blacks and other traditionally Democratic constituencies let Trump win by doing nothing, i.e. not voting. Why doesn’t your Burke quote apply to them?
Regards,
Shodan
The only positions that most of the liberals are taking exception to are those of bigotry and xenophobia. Now, these may be perfectly legitimate positions, but, to the liberal, they simply are not. They just can’t get their head around the idea that people would rather harm others than help themselves, but that is a position that the democrats need to come to grips with. Those are positions that get taken on “pejorative terms.” Maybe liberals need to find it in their heart to accept bigots and misogynists and racists, but it may take a while for them to realize what those positions contribute to society.
Pretty much all the other republican positions the democrats are fine with. They disagree, of course, but your statement is not in keeping with how much productive actual discussion takes place. Yours is but a strawmen caricature.
So, you are saying that they have been so upset over what some democrat somewhere might be thinking of them, that they went out and elected a demagogue.
Do your friends with a conservative mindset have no agency of their own? They were forced into by what they thought the democrats thought of them?
Should democrats do that? Should they lose all perspective and rationality because there are some conservatives somewhere that said something mean about them? Some of the shit I’ve heard from the right chafes a bit.
You agree that at least some of the people on your side have “these traits”, but you give them cover by not calling them out. Point out some unsavory liberals, I’ll call 'em out with you.
Allowing evil to fester in your community doesn’t necessarily mean that you are evil, but it definitely does mean that you are not good.
But you are right, liberals have been too quick to dismiss the views of the homophobic, the racist, the sexist, thinking that these were views that were only held by a very small number of people, and that they would never actually swing an election based on those types of positions.
This election has shown us that the bigots are far more numerous than we were thinking, and so we will have to treat racism as a legitimate position moving forward.
Just as we treat pro-gun or pro-life as legitimate positions upon which we disagree and try to have productive conversations with our ideological opponents on how to compromise o our conflicting goals, while still working toward our shared goals, racism and other forms of bigotry and hate are going to need to go on that table for discussion as well. It disgusts me, I will admit, and this is why it is hard for us to accept, but there it is, it ain’t going anywhere.
Where we once thought that equality was a shared goal between liberals and conservatives, it is hard to bring up the mindset that it is actually a conflicting one, and you need to give us some time. But thank you for your input on this, I understand it much better now.
No, it’s conservative’s fault for nominating and voting for Trump.
If you look to previous years, you would see that often times, black voters in Michigan and Pennsylvania spent upwards of 5 or more hours in line to vote. This year, there were also many reports of ridiculously long lines.
There is also the fact that Trump was threatening to send people to harass voters. That didn’t turn out in as much force as he was hoping, but it still probably kept a number of people from the polls. No one wants to stand in line for hours only to have their right to vote questioned by some jackass.
They were more excited about Obama, and most people thought that Clinton had it in the bag, so no, they didn’t spend the requisite half day in line in order to cast their vote.
How long did you spend in line before you voted for Trump? How long would you have waited to vote for him?
Cite? Really? I respectfully request you post a link verifying it took upwards of five hours for Black voters to cast their ballots.
How about: Not your thread, not your topic, so I feel no obligation to tie whatever I say to someone else to whatever it is you are talking about.
M’kay?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/11/08/voting-polls-election-day/93201770/
That’s just this year.
Did I need to go on? Is this something that you were actually unaware of, and need to be educated on, or are you just trying to make some sort of celebration of ignorance?
Let me know, because if the former, I have no problem whatsoever in helping you to educate yourself on the subject. If he latter, I have no interest in wasting my time playing games.
So you find my point unanswerable. No one is surprised.
There’s an assumption underlying this question that is incorrect. Can you guess what it is?
Hint:It’s not that I spent no time waiting in line to vote.
Regards,
Shodan
No-the reason I gave was the correct one…but if your ego needs you to believe that this is about you, it’s no skin off my nose. You “win” :rolleyes:
Well, I didn’t spend much time in line either.
Are you making the claim that you voted for Clinton? Well, if so, that was mighty nice of you. But, I am curious, if you voted for Clinton because you thought she would be a better president than trump, then why do you spend so much time lauding trump?
Your link to a USA Today doesn’t mention anything about Black people waiting five hours to vote. I went over it three times. Could you please provide a quote?
If liberals thought Republican positions had any legitimacy they’d be conservatives. Do you expect conservatives to think liberal positions have any legitimacy? I don’t. Why should they? At least not until they have a eureka moment, like when they’re bankrupted by medical bills, their son dies in a war, or their wife needs an abortion.
Is the claim that black people had to spend 5 hours in line to vote, but the white people in the ***same ***line were able to progress to the voting booths much more quickly? How did that work?
No. The claim is that urban areas where more voters were voting Democratic typically have lines that were longer than non-urban areas where more voters were voting Republican.