So, you consider an open-minded willingness to change opinion to be a moral, intellectual and political failing? Yes?
If Trump is reelected in 2020 I’d have to give serious thought to leaving.
Have you accepted Cthulhu into your heart?
Er. . . OK. But there are lies, and there are LIES.
You might be able to point to campaign Obama lying. In my view, most of what that will turn out to be is a candidate making promises as opposed to a deliberate or reckless report of a known factual matter.
Trump, in contrast, freely and repeatedly lied. I’ll give him the same kind of pass; I don’t say “We’ll build a wall and make Mexico pay,” is a lie. It’s a prediction for the future that doesn’t seem to be happening.
But Trump lied about purely factual matters, repeated, vigorously, and with no trace of shame. That was new territory.
While you’re packing, would you concede that maybe the strategy of belittling the voters on the other side might be a tad misguided? Or would you defend it as a great idea as you applied for residency in whatever country you chose to make your new home?
Damn. Cold, **Bricker **
I suppose he would go to a country with fewer deplorables, and then not worry about offending racists, bigots, islamophobes, homophobes, and people who will happily identify with one of those groups when given half a chance.
Agreed.
As we all know, “it’s not a lie if you believe it”. 
One thing about Trump, and I heard some talking head say this so I can’t take credit, is that he would probably pass a lie detector test. He seems to be so disconnected from reality that he may not even know which is which.
You want people to take issue with your position when they are in agreement with you?
Can’t speak with everyone but for me personally, I only take issue with your positions when I believe them to be wrong headed or when I think you’re arguing for sport.
Obama ran against McCain and Romney, and neither contest relied heavily on insults from either candidate. I’d like to think that, in a direct contest between Obama ad Trump, Obama’s calm would win out against Trumps constant insults. But there’s no way to know that for sure. The more recent election makes me seriously wonder.
This is no time to sugarcoat things. If they remain deplorable, we’re screwed.
Lots of American politicians spoke well of the Ku Klux Klan and had long and successful careers in office. Other candidates denounced the Ku Klux Klan and lost elections.
Sometimes what’s right politically is wrong morally. Trump did the political thing and supported bigotry. He won the election. Clinton did the moral thing and denounced bigotry. She lost the election.
As you say, we disagree on which of them made the right choice.
Except you seem to be implying a causal relationship there when we don’t know if one exists. Maybe Trump the non-bigot would have won by an even larger margin. We’ll never know.
Don’t assume that. Obama ran against McCain and Romney, two relatively honorable men. Clinton ran against Trump, a man who was willing to say and do anything.
If I’m following your argument about Clinton, you must feel that McCain and Romney did the wrong thing. They should have acted just as dirty as Trump did in order to win.
I haven’t given up hope. Call me naive but I feel most people are fundamentally decent. Keep in mind that more people voted for Clinton than for Trump.
We’re not going to change the minds of most of the deplorables. They’re going to stick with the leader in 2020.
But we can reach out to other people and show them how deplorable Trump and his hardcore supporters are. We can’t win over the deplorable vote without becoming deplorable. But we can wake up the anti-deplorable vote and drive the deplorables back out of power.
You’re not.
Based on what we know about the people who supported him we can make a pretty good guess, though.
Not necessarily. What might very well matter more is the people who didn’t support him but might otherwise do so. I’m not sure there were lots of people who would not vote for Trump because he wasn’t bigoted enough.
Good lord there were a lot of negations in that sentence.
But it was not without truth!