Trump's 'Bad Boy' Appeal

Great Debates
1

Granted, there’s been some Trump overload here and elsewhere but I’ve not seen this theory out there.

There’s been a lot of discussion of how Trump supporters reconcile their support with his many personal failings. But much of that has centered on how they - or at least the more intelligent ones - support him despite his failings, based on other qualities that they believe he has. My theory is that they - or at least some of them - support him because of these failings. And I’m not talking about people who agree with his conspiracy theories and misstatements of fact. I’m talking about people who realize that these are bogus.

Basically my theory is that in people’s perceptions and assessments, sometimes the whole is not just greater than the sum of the parts but it can go in the opposite direction. Meaning that sometimes a person’s individual actions/characteristics can be perceived as positive but the overall image created by these actions/characteristics can be negative, and vice versa.

One example, IMHO, is the nice guy/bad boy conundrum. There’s been an enormous amount of discussion of this and I’m not dismissing the various alternative theories, but I think a part of it, at least, is the phenomenon described above. Meaning, you could have a “nice guy” who acts in ways that women genuinely respect, but the cumulative effect of these actions is to give the guy an image of being weak, which turns many women off. And conversely, a “bad boy” might be engaging in a lot of individual actions that many women disapprove of and dislike, but the cumulative effect of flouting societal conventions and the like projects an image of strength and self-confidence, which many women find appealing.

So too it might be with Trump. When he says and does his various idiocies he turns off a lot of people. But these same words and actions might be appealing to some of these very same people, in that they build his overall image as a badass guy who doesn’t care what anyone thinks. And to the extent that you think the system is broken and needs an tough guy outsider to fix it, then Trump, by virtue of his far-out statements and actions alone, is that outsider.

The implications of this is that it might be very difficult for someone else to “be like Trump, only not such an obnoxious idiot”. Because even people who don’t like obnoxious idiocy may find something attractive about an obnoxious idiot himself, as above.

[Disclaimer: this is not to say that this is the entire basis for the Trump phenomenon, or a claim about any specific Trump supporter. Any resemblance to any Trump supporter or opponent, living or dead, is purely coincidental, and should not form the basis for any lawsuits or hysterical posts.]

2

I had written about this in another thread before; Trump’s appeal is a lot like the “Women don’t like nice guys, they want bad guys” phenomenon.

The Washington Post also covered it last October.

3

Yes, the image of Agent Orange as a blustering, bullying, get-shit-done and don’t-get-in-my-way badass is the primary thing admired by his supporters. Fuck law, fuck rules, fuck civil rights, fuck all those restrictions… give the man room, because he’s about to deliver some overdue ass-whupping that those pansy-ass Ivy Leaguers won’t.

Too bad that only works (1) in very limited fashion with defenseless targets, blind supporters or both, or (2) in Hollywood. But it’s very appealing, especially in an era where the attention span is 15 seconds to 140 characters long and the idea of moving carefully on matters of national and global import is just pointless frustration.

There’s also the matter of getting in the ring with real pros, where AO as played by Stallone gets handed all his bones by Putin as played by Mike Tyson.

4

Got a cite for that or are you just making it up as you go?

Slee

5

So you’re asking if I’m Obama or Trump?

How about any random dozen Trump supporter interviews or LTTE or blogs or whatever? That he’s going to come in and get shit done, unlike the careful wimps of the last administration, is spelled out in just about those words.

As for his disregard of the laws and rules and customs, see any page from any day of his administration so far.

6

Some girls (and guys) like bad boys, it’s true. (Although I think the “manosphere” is overly fond of this concept and exaggerates its prevalence.)
Still - how much raw sex appeal does the bad boy retain when he loses the fight in the parking lot? How about after the second loss? The fifth? Or when he gets pulled over for DUI, loses his license, and has to beg rides everywhere?

Antisocial* people don’t always pay a price for their awful behavior, god knows. But they run the constant risk of pissing off the wrong people, and/or too many people, and quickly becoming just plain old losers. Sure, some of their old friends/girlfriends will never give up on them, but that circle is gonna be smaller and more pitiful than before.

  • “antisocial” as in “antisocial behavior/ASBO,” not as in “wallflower at the school dance.”
7

It could be that Trump thinks he’s a face, when really he’s a heel. But I think he knows he’s a heel and is banking on it, and he’s all about not breaking kayfabe.

8

No. You’ve just made a claim. It’s up to you to back it up.

9

Dolph Lundgren you mean.

10

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Conservative whites in the US are under dual threat, both cultural and economic. Many feel their culture is being invaded, hollowed out and diluted by a rapid growth in non-whites, secularism, atheism, open LGBT communities, Muslims, etc. but also we’ve had almost 40 years of income stagnation combined with rising expenses of living. Trump was the only republican who at least pretended to care about working class people. The GOP opposes multiculturalism, but they ignore or are hostile to the economic interests of the bottom 99%.

However, what I’ll never understand is why people felt that a billionaire with a history of scamming and defrauding people, a history of using immigrant labor and overseas labor, etc. was somehow a champion of the working class. I could understand the whole anti-multiculturalism appeal they felt for him, but the economic appeal makes no real sense to me. Never did.

Anyway, we are in a nation where lots and lots of people are falling behind economically, and nothing is being done to help them. Both parties are bought by wealthy interests and the dems do more, but they half ass it while the GOP is openly hostile to the economic well being of the 99%. I read health care will be 20% of GDP by 2025, which would make it about 15k per person in 2025. how are people supposed to afford that?

I think this is like what happened in the Philippines, where things got so bad people wanted a strong man to come in and fix things. The problem is Trump won’t fix anything. And Bernie would be impotent. I have no idea where all this frustrated rage over economic inequality and multiculturalism is going to lead us.

11

No. I mean the real thing, a jaw breaking, rib smashing pro.

12

Men love “bad guys” as much if not more than women do. This love is woven into the fabric of our patriarchal society, so it always amuses me when this problem is made out to be something women perpetuate. How many men out there envision the alpha male ideal as someone who is polite, nurturing, and sensitive?

At the risk of threadshitting, I can’t imagine anyone disagreeing with the OP’s theory. Is it really debateable that Trump’s allure largely comes from his boorishness? Seeing how he’s the walking embodiment of everything women and minorities are not allowed to be, it only stands to reason that the very thing that makes him so celebrated–his personality–is actually something that is objectively abhorrent. Trump is a reminder to many of his supporters that white men still weld power. The worse he behaves, the more awe-inspiring he becomes.

13

Until they come for him, that is…

[QUOTE] Nobody naw give you no break Police naw give you no break Soldier naw give you no break Not even you children naw give you no break

Hehe
[/QUOTE]

‘COPS is filmed on location with the men and women of law enforcement. All suspects are innocent until proven guilty in the court of law’, even if the so-called president don’t think so…

14

I’ve not seen what you wrote in the other thread.

But as for the WP article, I think I might be saying something subtly different. I’m not saying that Trump has appeal to people who think it’s OK to (for example) grab women “by the pussy” or even to talk that way. I’m saying there are people who are consciously repulsed by this kind of talk but still are drawn to Trump for having done it. Because along with this showing him to be an obnoxious boor (or misogynist, in some people’s view), it also shows him to be a guy whose not encumbered by political conventions and PC thinking. And even some people who are disgusted by this type of talk/action might find themselves drawn to a guy with this type of image, without even consciously realizing that the image is largely produced by the very actions that they abhor.

I seized on the “bad boy” example because it’s closest to the actual Trump example, but there are other examples of people’s minds working this way. One example would be the public’s romantic attitude to various outlaws and criminals (e.g. Bonnie and Clyde, Dillinger et al). There is not a large segment of the public which consciously approves of robbing banks and shooting up cops etc., and what people find to admire about these thugs is their independent spirit and David vs Goliath approach to life and the system. But these qualities are themselves manifested primarily in the very activities (robbing banks, shooting cops) that people reject.

You couldn’t use these examples to show that people approve of such activities, and the same would apply to women who hang with “bad boys”, or to people who find something appealing about Trump. And conversely, it’s also true that you can’t necessarily predict based on people’s attitudes about certain behaviors how they would react to people associated with such behaviors.

15

Well, one should not forget how Bonnie and Clyde and Dillinger ended, in a hail of bullets.

One should not forget too that while many of the legends and romantic tales of the past do include a good dose of “fighting the system” or to “stand against the injustice of corporations”, one important part of the lesson from our myths is that while the bad boys and girls do get admiration, most of those admirers do realize also that the law and other institutions still have very good reasons to be there.

16

well, here’s one take on it.
'“But Trump is objectively a piece of shit!” you say. “He insults people, he objectifies women, and cheats whenever possible! And he’s not an everyman; he’s a smarmy, arrogant billionaire!”

Wait, are you talking about Donald Trump, or this guy:’ <picture of Tony Stark>
…
You’ve never rooted for somebody like that? Someone powerful who gives your enemies the insults they deserve?"

I’m an old school Librul who escaped the Midwest, but this article gave me food for thought.

17

Yes, but I get the feeling you’re not seeing the full context of his popularity. Or maybe you do and you just haven’t articulated that. Or maybe you have and I haven’t seen it.

Do you think any ole person with Trump’s affluence and boorish personality would have attracted the support that got him to office? I believe him being a white man in opposition to THE KENYAN’s party has 100% to do with why his unrefined, anti-intellectual crassness became his strength in the campaign, as these traits are completely unlike Obama.

With HRC as his rival, it then became a contest between stereotypical (prized) masculinity and stereotypical (despised) femininity. Trump plays a stereotypical male (of the Biff Jr. bully mold), and HRC lends herself to the nagging, do-gooder of Lucy from Peanuts. Because our society hates Lucies a lot more than Biffs (even though they are decidedly more harmful), this gave Trump an advantage among those already ideologically disposed to vote Republican.

Obama backlash has turned everything on its head. Up is down, bad is good, civility is weak, vulgarity is strong. We have to factor in that context (plus sexism) when we look at Trump. It’s very likely that Trump wouldn’t have had a chance if Obama’s presidency and HRC’s candidacy hadn’t been perceived as attacks against the status quo of white male dominance.

I could see how what I’m saying is debateable, but not the idea that Trump rode into office because he’s a bad boy. Because it’s quite obvious that exactly what he did.

18

Oh yeah, not sure if that happened in real life but in the classic Bonnie and Clyde movie there was the scene of a farmer where his money was not stolen in one of the bank robberies of B&C so he said to reporters that B&C did right by him and that he will send tons of flowers to their funeral.

(The funeral was in the future, that was the farmer just stating that while he was grateful and somewhat supportive of B&C that he knew what was going to be their likely fate.)

19

I can’t help it. The first day he roared up on his chopper, ran a pomade comb through his inverted duck’s ass, winked and growled “what do you know, beautiful?” I plotzed in my poodle skirt.

20

It’s possible that it might be a bit harder for a black person to pull this off, being that blacks are associated with PC-ness, but I doubt if it’s to any significant degree. I could see a guy like David Clarke pulling off the same thing.

I agree that Obama backlash was probably a part of it (as Bush backlash was part of Obama’s success and Nixon backlash part of Carter’s etc. etc.). But not because of Obama being THE KENYAN; more because Obama is very associated with political correctness.