Trump's pathological need to lie about Obama

[iiandyiiii]

He lies about many things, but about Obama he really seems to up his lie game. Lying about Obama (birtherism) was how Trump came to political prominence, and was vital to his victory in the GOP primary. Now he’s lying (I’ll assume it’s most likely a lie until there’s any reason to believe otherwise) about a supposed wiretap ordered by Obama, for which he’s presented no evidence. And just this morning, he lied on twitter about Guantanamo release-ees who have engaged in terror – he said “122 vicious prisoners, released by the Obama Administration from Gitmo, have returned to the battlefield. Just another terrible decision!”, but 113 of those 122 were released under the Bush administration.

At what point will these lies begin to harm him politically more than they help him?

[Inbred_Mm_domesticus]

Trump’s tweets are for his core of support and they hate Obama. It makes sense he continues to lie and promote their conspiracy theories via twitter.

I believe this behavior will harm him politically the minute he turns it on Congress as a whole. I don’t know why that would happen.

[QuickSilver]

I agree that his true believers will continue to accept every lie he tells as the gospel truth because they are willfully ignorant. The good news is that I see no evidence that his constant dumbfuckery and lies are serving to add new converts to his base.

I disagree that his lies and constant dumbfuckery are not harming him politically every day.

Responsible media is doing an extra-ordinary job in calling him out on every lie he tells, as demonstrated by the WaPo article linked in the OP. I do not see them tiring of fact checking and exposing his every lie. In fact, they are getting better and better at it. As a result, there is recent evidence that it’s making Trump more and more irrational because of the criticism he is seeing on an hourly basis. I expect that this pressure will continue to build until he finally does something so monumentally stupid and disgraceful that congress will have no choice but to act in a bipartisan way to remove him from office because he will be deemed as mentally unstable to carry on.

As a side note, in Canada, there is a procedure in place that allows the PM to be removed by holding a vote of non-confidence. I don’t think that kind of measure exists in the US constitution. Only in Canada; Pitty.

[Death_of_Rats]

I think it is also a big part of his narcissism that he can’t just be seen doing something, he has a compulsion to destroy the people he sees as his “enemies”. It is not enough for him to tear down everything that Obama accomplished as President. He also needs to tear him down as a person because in Trump’s mind that makes Trump better. The fact that he has a deluded fan club cheering him on just fuels that mental wildfire.

[Icarus]

@Death_of_Rats

I think it is also a big part of his narcissism that he can’t just be seen doing something, he has a compulsion to destroy the people he sees as his “enemies”. It is not enough for him to tear down everything that Obama accomplished as President. He also needs to tear him down as a person because in Trump’s mind that makes Trump better. The fact that he has a deluded fan club cheering him on just fuels that mental wildfire.

I find it helpful to imagine in Trump’s mind this phrase repeating, “How the F*CK did that BLACK GUY get ahead of ME?” Once you start with that, everything he does just kinda makes sense…

[QuickSilver]

I think Obama is far too smart and far too classy to enter the fray (other than a brief statement through a spokesperson, as needed).

But if he did, can you imagine the kind of raging mental damage that would cause the orange jackass?

[JackieLikesVariety]

maybe even Donnie can see that President Obama is his polar opposite: a smart, decent, family man.

[QuickSilver]

Biffster posted this in the Pit but I felt it was worth re-posting here:

“At some points words fail, or they are starting to fail me. We have an Administration in freefall. Have we passed through the circle of chaos? Are we at the circle of havoc?
The real Donald Trump has stood up, once again. Let no one ever be fooled. Let there be no doubt. The man who sends out a twitter tirade accusing a former President of crimes for which he provides no evidence, the man who doubles down when everyone with any sense pushes back, that man is our Commander in Chief. Everyone who normalizes Mr. Trump now, or has in the past, will have to answer to future generations for their acquiescence, silence or sophistry—if, indeed, not outright cowardice.
How hollow do all those pundit plaudits (including from many progressives) sound now for an average and disingenuous speech of someone else’s words read from a teleprompter to Congress and the nation a week ago? A “presidential” Trump is a punchline to a joke no one wants to have told. Conspiracy theories are corrosive in society at large. When they dictate national policy, they can be lethal.
This is a man who challenged the citizenship of President Obama, with lies, innuendo, and no evidence. This is a man who claimed widespread voter fraud with lies, innuendo, and no evidence. This is a man who has taken a rhetorical blowtorch to our Constitutional principles with lies, innuendo, and no evidence. Those who rose in Congress to applaud his turns of phrase bear responsibility. Those who cynically use his presidency to push forward unpopular giveaways to the rich and well connected bear responsibility. Those in the press who meet insults with explanations bear responsibility.
Even the most grounded of presidents must fight to keep themselves moored to the real world. The Oval Office can be a bubble. Power attracts sycophants and cynics. But I have never seen anything like this. The sheer level of paranoia that is radiating out of the White House is untenable to the workings of a republic. I have a real question if President Trump actually believes what he is saying. Even Richard Nixon, the most paranoid president to date, ruled for years with a relatively calm hand. This Administration has been an off kilter whirlwind since the inauguration, and news reports suggest that seething anger from Mr. Trump is only getting worse. There is a growing consensus that the President may be “unhinged.” It’s a serious allegation, but even if it is not the case, Mr. Trump only has himself to blame.
To call a drama Shakespearean or operatic is usually an overreach. But I imagine artists of the future, and even the present, will find ample inspiration in our moment in history. Doesn’t Steve Bannon strike you as an Iago whispering in the ear of an Othello-like Trump, consumed by jealousy and paranoia?
As the questions mount around Russia, as the circles of defense begin to falter, the determination to create diversions will escalate. But if the President hoped he could create a distraction, I think he misjudged the will of the American people. We have woken. We are paying attention. And we love our country too much to let it falter without a fight.”

– Dan Rather

[Hari_Seldon]

There was an opinion piece in Sunday’s Times that suggested that Trump simply believes that all publicity is good. If the press could only learn to ignore him, it would drive him nuts. Of course that is not going to happen. Every day in the Times there are always at least two stories about what Trump has done now, an editorial, at least one op-ed piece. Trump claims it is all lies, but he laps it up.

[The_Other_Waldo_Pepper]

@Hari_Seldon

There was an opinion piece in Sunday’s Times that suggested that Trump simply believes that all publicity is good. If the press could only learn to ignore him, it would drive him nuts.

I’m now imagining Trump responding by trying even harder to get attention.

Granted, I can’t actually come up with anything. But I’m pretty sure he could.

[Turek]

@Hari_Seldon

There was an opinion piece in Sunday’s Times that suggested that Trump simply believes that all publicity is good. If the press could only learn to ignore him, it would drive him nuts. Of course that is not going to happen. Every day in the Times there are always at least two stories about what Trump has done now, an editorial, at least one op-ed piece. Trump claims it is all lies, but he laps it up.

DNFTT doesn’t even work in the Pit. There’s no way it could work for the President of the US.

[BobLibDem]

Let’s see- you’re talking about a guy that used to deny housing rentals to black applicants and got busted for so doing. A guy who they used to hide the black workers from when he came down on the casino floor. A guy who perpetuated the birther fraud. I’m going to go way out on a limb and say racism is the biggest factor. He can’t abide by the fact that we had a black president.

[RickJay]

@QuickSilver

I agree that his true believers will continue to accept every lie he tells as the gospel truth because they are willfully ignorant. The good news is that I see no evidence that his constant dumbfuckery and lies are serving to add new converts to his base.

I disagree that his lies and constant dumbfuckery are not harming him politically every day.

How is he being harmed? He’s still President and his agenda is still going ahead.

As a side note, in Canada, there is a procedure in place that allows the PM to be removed by holding a vote of non-confidence. I don’t think that kind of measure exists in the US constitution. Only in Canada; Pitty.

The Prime Minister isn’t the head of state, technically.

But even if you had such a process, Trump would not be removed in a vote of non confidence. The current Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, enjoys the support of over half the House of Commons - they’re the members of his party. So he will remain in power even if he engages in some sort of dumbfuckery, because his own party is not going to spontaneously fire the most powerful man in the party, and they’re not going to vote themselves out of a job with a non confidence vote - that’s literally what it means, as a vote of non confidence triggers an election.

Congress DOES have a way of “voting non confidence” in the President. They can impeach him. They could do it tomorrow. But they won’t, for the same reason Parliament is not getting rid of Justin Trudeau; they support him, they’re in his party.

[gytalf2000]

@QuickSilver

Responsible media is doing an extra-ordinary job in calling him out on every lie he tells, as demonstrated by the WaPo article linked in the OP. I do not see them tiring of fact checking and exposing his every lie. In fact, they are getting better and better at it. As a result, there is recent evidence that it’s making Trump more and more irrational because of the criticism he is seeing on an hourly basis. I expect that this pressure will continue to build until he finally does something so monumentally stupid and disgraceful that congress will have no choice but to act in a bipartisan way to remove him from office because he will be deemed as mentally unstable to carry on.

I really hope that you’re correct about this!
Of course, that event would give the presidency to Pence, instead of an actual reasonable, intelligent, non-religious-fanatic person…

[Bryan_Ekers]

@RickJay

Congress DOES have a way of “voting non confidence” in the President. They can impeach him. They could do it tomorrow. But they won’t, for the same reason Parliament is not getting rid of Justin Trudeau; they support him, they’re in his party.

Worth nothing, though I’m sure it’s common knowledge. is the smaller-scale version in which the cabinet can temporarily remove the President under the terms of the 25th Amendment and the Vice-President becomes Acting President.

Of course, the clown car that is Trump’s cabinet looks about as capable of organizing to remove him as they are of growing wings and flying to the moon.

[QuickSilver]

@RickJay

How is he being harmed? He’s still President and his agenda is still going ahead.

Be that as it may, I don’t see how he will be seen as anything but a liability to the country if he continues (and there is no reason to believe he won’t) on his current trajectory.

[QuickSilver]

@gytalf2000

I really hope that you’re correct about this!
Of course, that event would give the presidency to Pence, instead of an actual reasonable, intelligent, non-religious-fanatic person…

One loon at a time.

[DataX]

@QuickSilver

I agree that his true believers will continue to accept every lie he tells as the gospel truth because they are willfully ignorant. The good news is that I see no evidence that his constant dumbfuckery and lies are serving to add new converts to his base.

I disagree that his lies and constant dumbfuckery are not harming him politically every day.

Responsible media is doing an extra-ordinary job in calling him out on every lie he tells, as demonstrated by the WaPo article linked in the OP. I do not see them tiring of fact checking and exposing his every lie. In fact, they are getting better and better at it. As a result, there is recent evidence that it’s making Trump more and more irrational because of the criticism he is seeing on an hourly basis. I expect that this pressure will continue to build until he finally does something so monumentally stupid and disgraceful that congress will have no choice but to act in a bipartisan way to remove him from office because he will be deemed as mentally unstable to carry on.

As a side note, in Canada, there is a procedure in place that allows the PM to be removed by holding a vote of non-confidence. I don’t think that kind of measure exists in the US constitution. Only in Canada; Pitty.

There is a way for the cabinet to kick him out, but I doubt they’d do it.

But although I agree his antics aren’t gaining him converts - his base (and others) seem stuck in fairy tale land.

No matter how much he lies - people don’t give a shit.

This poll came out in like the last couple hours:
http://www.suffolk.edu/documents/SUPRC/3_7_2017_marginals.pdf

More of these people voted for Hillary than trump (barely), but he is still getting a 47% approval rating.

9% aren’t sure!

How can people be unsure?

The did give lower marks on stuff like temperament and his tweeting too much, but it isn’t effecting his bottom line too much.

I have a friend (well the partner of a friend of mine) - who is kinda what you picture when you think of a trump voter. He’s not a rabid Trump supporter, but didn’t like Obama and really thinks Trump is gonna come out with a great replacement for Obamacare. Well in fairness he was skeptical- but I think he really believes Trump knows what he is doing and will do his best to get something that works.

Trump continues (I didn’t see it in this poll, but in others) to get high marks for stuff like intelligence and business ability. I think a large part of Americans are still totally ignorant into what his business is. I think a lot of them really believe he was building hotels in New York last year

While I agree you are correct that the media has gotten better at pointing out his lies -w WTF happened with that speech in front of congress. They acted like it was Churchill. He brings out victims of illegal aliens and hardly anybody called him on it (that I saw).

And the media still tries to give a “fair and balanced” approach to his ridiculous tweets and “policies” - it’s sad cause they are lending legitimacy to a guy who knows almost nothing about virtually all his “proposals”

Too many people don’t trust the MSM - and hey I’m not saying take it blindly, but I think they really believe the media is out to get Trump

[ThelmaLou]

@JackieLikesVariety

maybe even Donnie can see that President Obama is his polar opposite: a smart, decent, family man.

Not to mention physically fit with a killer body, athletic prowess [those pics of Obama windsurfing must have fried Donnie!], classy, charming, confident, well-spoken, not a breath of any kind of scandal, with a gorgeous, super-intelligent wife who clearly adores him… I would imagine DJT would be fairly consumed with envy, if he would let himself think about it-- which he clearly can’t-- too painful to compare himself.

[RickJay]

@QuickSilver

Be that as it may, I don’t see how he will be seen as anything but a liability to the country if he continues (and there is no reason to believe he won’t) on his current trajectory.

But why does that matter to Donald Trump?

I mean, if we were talking about the first two months or the Presidencies of Barack Obama, George W. Bush, or… well, anyone else who’s ever been President, this would be an interesting point.

But we’re not; we’re talking about a very different President. You cannot view his actions thro7ugh the lens of the logic you applied to Obama and Bush and Clinton and on and on, all of whom were certainly egotistical but who also

1. Wanted to improve the United States and the welfare of its citizenry,
2. Wanted to improve the position and influence of their political parties, and
3. Wanted to create a positive historical legacy.

These things do not interest Trump. Trump doesn’t care at all about the USA or its populace. Trump’s primary goal is to enrich himself by looting the government and using its policies to make himself money (or pay off debts to Russia, which is effectively the same thing.) His secondary goal - well, maybe less a goal and more of an overriding theme, as it were - is to enrich his ego. That is, incidentally, why he held that rally in Florida. It made him feel nice inside. It also props up support among Trumpists, which ensures future rallies will draw thousands of Trumpists to cheer for him.

So far he is succeeding, except when something mean about his is said on the news, which is what makes him send angry/distracting tweets. But his plan is generally working; he’s the President, and the opportunities for graft are limited only by his imagination. If something like the Muslim Travel Ban fails, that doesn’t really “harm” Trump in the slightest. Trump doesn’t make money from that. He’s doing it solely to mollify the ultra-right-wingers in Congress and make dull-minded Americans happy. If the ban is struck down in court, or goes through but is an operational fiasco, it doesn’t matter at all. If it’s struck down Trump still looks like a hero to racists. IF it fails to accomplish anything, that’s irrelevant; he did it, and every day there isn’t a terrorist attack he can say it’s working, and the Trumpists will believe him and cheer for him.

The only thing that could harm Trump is something that could actually remove him from office early. (I am not convinced he wants, or needs, a second term; he can steal most of the money in the first four years.) As long as he’s President, he can gobble up taxpayer money; it makes no difference at all what happens to the country, or to the Republican Party, or anything at all, as long as he gets lots of money and adulation; his policies can be total failures but as long as he doesn’t start a war bad enough to go nuclear and ruin his wealth, he’s good. What would harm him is removal from office - which is why he plays ball with the Republicans as much as he does. If he keeps enough Republicans happy, he can’t be impeached, and the gravy will continue to flow.