What about if you were an RSO who used this message board in much the same way as the rest of us until one day suddenly you’re banned with no warning and an administrator is posting the link to your full name and home address?
What if you’re just a regular user, not doing anything in particular? Generic case… posting of a user’s real name and home address contrary to that user’s wishes… what should the punishment be for the poster?
Okay, I suppose you would have done something. What that was we’ll never know, but it’s clear (from their posting) that some of your staff didn’t take this seriously until the big shitstorm.
Still, this seems to have touched a nerve with you, which is quite telling in its own way.
It doesn’t have anything to do with TubaDiva, either, for some of us.
Actually, I just looked in the registration agreement in ATMB. It says “do not post your home telephone number or address” (bolding mine).
The only other relevant section is probably:
Now if that “publicly accessible” information wasn’t “invasive of a person’s privacy,” I wonder if another user’s “publicly accessible” information would be. Something tells me it would.
So “The Privacy Agreement of LJ prevents me from doing this there, but HERE is another story.”
Something tells me that wouldn’t fly.
Have you got any actual proof for that?
Or rather, let me quote our friend Arnold:
Holy crap.
This has certainly gone 'round the bend. Please allow me to voice my opinion.
I haven’t had many dealings with TD. I was a lurker for a good two years before I ever joined. A religious lurker, in that I was a devoted reader and would follow the doings here with animated interest.
My first ever post was deleted, because I asked a question that pertained to my owrk and an article I was composing. I thought I was familiar with the rules, but I guess I had crossed a line with that one. Instead of anyone alerting me to what I had done or why said thread was deleted, I had to contact the Admins/Mods for a reason. TD responded, and her answer was, shall we say, less than courteous and less than filled with information. That was my initial personal dealing with her. I even e-mailed her back to ask how I could pose a certain question without breaking a rule. She never responded.
Perhaps it’s because I write about sex as my job and it’s considered TMI for her resume. Pardon me, I didn’t pay the full join price to be considered part of her resume, I joined to be part of lively discussions, heated/intelligent debates, learning some true lessons and communicating with others that I fould extrordinarily interesting.
That being said, let me make another analogy. Yes, I know, but it’s true and pertains to me, so bear with me.
I have a DUI conviction in my past. Stupid move on my part, something I regret, something I PAID MY DEBT TO SOCIETY FOR according to the law. I shoul dnot be penalized further because according to the LAW, I have been punished appropriately.
Should TD ever see something of mine that is work-related that she thinks is wonky, or thinks that perhaps I was “under the influence” and went to a message board that I moderate with 5,000 members and did something akin to what she did to this SM, I would sue the living pants off her. Say I was on medication for a fucking tumor in my neck, and was a little off. Say I got behind the wheel of a car and drove while tired, and TD made an assumption, based upon my past, that she throught I was drunk. The police disagree or don’t give her the response she wants/demands, so she “outs” me to a community of my friends/peers/whomever. I would be more than livid, and hell, there are lawyers who would take the case on the premise that suing the Reader would bring some cash later and work for free until we won.
Did an actual crime take place? From what I’ve read, no.
Was there a possibility that one could have? According to the “evidence”, there MAY have been potential, but nothing had occured to that point. TD had concerns, raised when another ember of the board reported some suspicious behavior.
TD had aboslutely NO RIGHT to go as far as she did. It was vindictive, and beyond the call of what anyone who consideres themself to be in a position of power (even as Mod?Admin of a board) should even consider. It was a blatant abuse of power.
People in the real world have been fired for much less than that. It violated the rights of the RSO. As a poreviously convicted person, SM had to register. Other than that, he must live within the confines of the terms of his convictions. Unless TD knows EXACTLY those terms, then she had no right to out him. She should have dealt with the authorities, as Scotti claims she tried to do. But that should have been the end of it.
To take it further and post what she did, personal 'hot button" for her or not, was wrong. It was unethical, it was not humble, it was not done in good faith and was not done in a manner to protect anyone else. It was vindictiveness, and it was “I’ve got you, sucker - don’t even think with fucking with me; I’m an ADMIN.” At a wholly different board, no less.
Paid or not, when TD agreed to become one of those dedicated folks willing to volunteer toime to moderate a hugely busy, active community like this, she agreed to be held to a higher standard of behavior and to not abuse her power.
Sure, I honestly believe people make mistakes. I think she recognizes she may have made one, although her apology is tinged with just a hint of self-righteousness. Fact is, she made an error in judgement. So did I when I made a bad call and drove one night after one beer too many. Difference is - I paid for my mistake. A slap on the wrist and sweeping it under the rug smacks of favoritism and “we protect our own” mentality by the other admins.
TubaDiva may be an incrediby popular person here. The sheer number of posts supporting her would attest to that. As a regular member of the community, I believe she would enjoy a long membership as a productive and popular poster. As a Mod/Admin, it’s poor showing to allow her to be in a position like that where she more than once has made that same or very similar mistake.
If I got one DUI, my sentence was A. If I got two, my sentence was increased to B. If I got three, my sentence would’ve been even further increased with additional rammifications. I don’t see anything here that would show that she’s even been chastised (although I am not privy to the behind-the-scenes action) for her past transgressions. A 30 day suspension is a little light, considering the seriousness of this move, and the previous history attached.
The RSO is complying with his terms of release. She has no right to decide whether or not he should continue to be free unless criminal charges are brought and she is invited to sit on his jury. He made a mistake in his past; he is allowed a chance, under the terms of the law, to try to correct his life and move on. Insensitive, abusive things like what TD did violate the RSO’s freedoms.
I’m not FOR sex offenders - let me make the distinction. But I needed to add my two cents. If you accept a position of authority, it is your - repeat your responsibility to hold yourself to a higher standard. TD was unable to do this. She has shown herself unfit for a position of authority.
My dog in this fight, and my last comment on subject. And my renew date isn’t for quite a while, so I’ll see how the future unravels before I make any decisions about my continued participation.
Inky.
Who’se had her medication for her tumor, and may not be as coherent as she likes but still wanted to make the point.
Nice post, Inky. Well said.
But that’s NOT what happened. In your hypothetical case, no crime, no time.
By leander:“Have you got any actual proof for that?”
Of course I don’t. I’ve read most of this stuff that’s been going on for the past month, thought the situation through and come to certain conclusions about how events developed and what factors were involved.
If you can bring yourself to believe that certain drastic actions were taken with no provacation at all, no desire to protect potential victims and that there was no need to warn people, then run with it.
By Inky:" Did an actual crime take place? From what I’ve read, no."
I believe it is a crime for an RSO to contact a minor in hopes of meeting for sex. Maybe not, I’m not a lawyer.
So you’ve seen the e-mail where the RSO said, “Hey, Member, I think you’re wonderful. I can change your life. Let’s have sex.”
Or have you heard the term “grooming” and taken it to mean something more. Grooming is first gathering trust and establishing yourself as a favorable person in someone’s eyes and opinion. Then the move is made.
As I have said, I have not seen the documents - perhaps he did solicit. I can hardly believe the police would’ve refused to act if a RSO was pandering to an underage person, though. My reading of the facts, then, would be to believe that he was in fact in the process of grooming (And I’m willing to take on faith that it may’ve happened, although I repeat, ** I ** have not seen the documents.) and TD may’ve thought she was helping prevent something atrocious. But there are limits.
And this traversed those limits. With a deliberateness that defies the very clear responsibilities of TD’s position as Admin/Mod. And limits that she’s traversed, although not to this degree, before.
Still, means to an end, and all. Do the end results justify the means of action? Slippery slope, my friend, and one we fight against for our basic freedoms each day. Or at least I do.
Please don’t read it as snarky - it’s simply my opinion, to whch I am entitled as are the other 7hundred something posts in this thread. I have no personal animosity toward TD. She may be an incredibly wonderful person with a heart of gold. It doesn’t mean she is “mamagement material”.
She may’ve been a wonderful Mod/Admin before. (I don’t know what the difference between the two is - apologies.) But times change, people change, sometimes personal changes challenge your abilities to continue in a current position. We’ve all had that happen before, haven’t we? Left a group of friends because something changed that made a situation less than ideal any longer? Left a job because something changed and we no longer found satisfaction, or were too quick to jump on things that once we would’ve allowed without complaint.
Her past successes and contributions shouldn’t be ignored - neither should her recent transgressions.
Inky
And as has become the refrain of the last page or so, you don’t KNOW that’s not what happened. Maybe you BELIEVE that’s not what happened, and that’s fine, but at least allow for the miniscule tiny itty-bitty chance that you’re wrong here.
Incindentally, my opinion on Tuba’s fitness to be an administrator doesn’t really hinge on whether the person in question contacted anyone, minor or not — I feel it was inappropriate for her to intentionally act in a manner she knew was in violation of the privacy policy here, period.
Even if we grant the THINK OF THE CHILDREN justification for a need to “warn the community”… I fail to see the necessity of posting his name and address.
What a bunch of bullshit. There’s a big difference between “wanting to protect someone” and “needing to warn people”. Maybe Tuba was trying to do the former, but unless you’ve got some proof that the latter is absolutely true, then you’re just perpetuating a witchhunt. Go re-read Arnold’s quote I posted. Then put up or shut up.
Of course, if you can bring yourself to believe everything a mod tells you, then run with it. And while you’re out perhaps I could interest you in some waterfront real estate right “outside” Manhattan…
leander, why don’t you take a chill-pill, sit down and cool off for an hour. Think the whole deal through, and see what seems more likely to you?
Here, I’ll loan you Occam’s razor to use while you ponder.
G’night.
Why don’t you just reply to the many salient points made?
Originally posted by Ink a dink a dink
Whatever makes you think TubaDiva hasn’t paid enough?
What would your feelings be like, reading a thread like this? I know I would be hurt. Very much so.
I’m so sorry, TubaDiva. Please hang on.
love,
gum.
Not a thing. Guinastasia mentioned it. You said that SM had been banned and she wasn’t making any sense. I’d say it’s relevant only in that if you don’t know what’s currently going on in the other communities, then you most likely weren’t there when Tubadiva’s posts happened and didn’t read anything first hand.
Big Bad Boss Of Barsoom I believe that Tubadiva thought she had reason to worry and believed that she was acting to warn the community and protect the innocent. However, I’m not sure that she had reasonable cause to worry and I think that posting information and allegations publicly was a mistake. You tell the police and let them handle things.
MeanOldMan As far as I know, I’m not in any of the books. Sometimes, I wake up in the middle of the night and cry about it. Have my studies in EtherPsychology been forgotten? Does nobody consider me an expert in the history and use of the 1920’s Style Death Ray? Do I not have a monkey butler? If you tickle me, do I not laugh? If you cut me, do I not say ‘Stop that!’? If you poison me do I not turn a funny shade of green and go into comical convulsions? I’m upset over this precisely because the SDMB means so much to me. If there is another message board to equal it, I haven’t seen it. Look at the many semen-themed threads. Even those are filled with shining intelect and wonderful creativity. Ed has often said that any legal action against the board will cause the Reader to pull the plug. When the feces first hit the fan, I and others were afraid it was the end of the Dope. Now, some of us feel that Tubadiva is no longer a worthy steward of the boards.
Arnold Wrinlkyweed I want to believe you. But it seems like the staff got together and decided ‘We need Tuba to run the boards. Let’s base our decision on that rather than ethics.’
On the remote chance that anybody cares, I do plan to renew- and if (Og willing) the SDMB is still here and still reasonably priced next year, I’ll renew then too. And the year after that. Ad infinitum.
Perhaps this question has been asked and answered, but I am not going to wade through the rest of this mess to find out. So, here it is:
If I am a registered sex offender (which I am not), how do I have any right to claim privacy under any circumstances about my identity? I have to register with a public registry which anyone can view. That right there wrecks any claims of privacy.
If she had any information about this alleged trolling for children she had every right to out this guy. And I believe that she did, otherwise why would she go to such lengths to “out” the guy? People who fly under the radar don’t get noticed.
So, ultimately, what did she do? She took public information posted by him (his name via his e-mail address), put it to a face on a public sex offender registry, and told him to take a hike. It’s no different than anything his neighbor might do. And the truth is, if he was trolling for kids she did the right thing. Naturally, with something involving a minor she would not be able to divulge who, but she has every right as a concerned citizen to do so, why wouldn’t she have that right here?
If you think that this guy has the right to live out his life in anonymity, then you need to beat feet down to your local congressman/woman to get them to get rid of the sex offender registry. Until then they are fair game, as was intended by the creation of said registry.
I see nothing wrong with this at all. The registry served its purpose. As the Internet is an extension of reality I don’t get what the flap is all about.
Quite so. Now, would you mind explaining to me why, if there’s ample room for honest disagreement, this thread has now gone on for a dozen shit-slinging pages? It’s not like everyone’s grievances haven’t been adequately aired at this point, so what further purpose does it serve to keep grinding dirt into the wound?
I hate to resort to the old “Don’t let the door hit you on the ass,” but at some point folks have got to either decide that they can’t accept the situation and get out, or decide that they can tolerate the decision and shut the hell up about it.