Tupperware/partylite/avon and other scurvy subhumans

The BBQ Pit
1

This is my first official thread to start in the BBQ. I feel like a such a virgin.

Here is my rant for your edifiction:

One of my dipwad neighbors ( the nicest and funniest of the lot of dipwads) are expecting #2 child. It was sorta planned. They wanted to start this summer and found out before Xmas they were in the family way.

They can’t save a frickin’ dime. They buy everything and are very lazy and into all the collectable shit that I can’t beleive people purchase. (They also have a golf cart to get them to and fro around their 2.5 acres. I’m pretty sure that their nearly 2 year old daughter’s feet have never touched the ground outside ever.) They like to entertain and go out.(They do have great parties. and spend more on the Shrimp than I do on all my party food & decorations, but I digress.)

They asked us how did we manage without my income and was it hard to get by. To be honest, I/we must have just pisssssed away my income because we have the same amount of money in the bank ( somewhere above the red line) and what we don’t do anymore ( going weekly to dinner & movies, cd purchases, traveling) is no longer a priority, or to be honest, all that appealing. ( Ok, the traveling is very appealing, just not with toddlers.) We make every purchase count now. It’s amazing just how satisfying buying something that you will use and use it alot is than to buy something because you will use it maybe once.

Anyways, she wants to quit her job and stay home with the kids because she never sees child number one. ( This little girl is at day care at 630ish in the AM, picked up at 400p, takes a nap until 530ish and goes to bed at 8pm.) Unfucking beleiveable. ( although, this is the only child in daycare that I’ve witnessed that isn’t out of control or needing duct tape therapy.) The fact that she is a good girl has little to do with her parents, it is all the day care lady’s doing. The parents are good parents in that area, but they compensate the lack of being there by buying shit for this kid. That is another rant in itself.

What are these two spendthrift dipwad parents going to do to supplement their income: Amway and the Pampered Chef. Give ME STRENGTH! (I’ve already given a headsup to my sister in law - a neighbor - so she can make her apologies for not attending these debacles of suburbia.)

I don’t do these parties ( the ones I have attended I end up being the smartass in the corner making the hostess very uncomfortable and thus, I’m never invited back.) There isn’t one thing at these “affairs” I need and cannot find in a real store cheaper. I have said this to the hostesses face in front of people and I do not consider these people friends for trying to take advantage of me by guilting me into something.

The best quote I’ve heard about the lot of these things is from my brother in law: " Why not just ask your friends to give you $30, that’s really what you are going for and it spares them the hassle of being guilted into something they really don’t need."

Do people actually think they can supplement a $40,000 a year income loss by selling potato peelers and laundry balls?

Hubby and I are giving them one more year in their house before they move, which is sad, because I will miss mocking them as they go by in their golf cart.

So, Gentle Readers, am I right on target or completely off base with my rant?

2

Well, Shirley, I don’t know a whole lot about the Amway/Pampered Chef type stuff, but my mom took a job as an Avon rep when I was five because she needed $30 a month to send me to private kindergarten. By the time she left the company 18 years, she was managing an entire district of representatives and had become a salaried employee. So I have to say that it is very possible to make good money, at least sometimes, with those types of jobs. There were times when I was a kid that I know my family would have starved if it hadn’t been for my mother’s job. Maybe your neighbors will be fortunate enough to be really good salespeople.

3

Could you possibly separate day care from your rant about dipwad buying parties, which I also hate? I have a relative who does one of these things, and the products are so overwhelmingly tacky that I can never find anything to buy, and I can’t think of a single friend to bring when I’m dragooned into one of these parties. I did get a couple to come once on promise that they’d blow 10 bucks which I’d pay back to them later via drinks and dessert, and that they’d have a good story to tell back at the firm.

I think mixing entertainment and sales is pretty much a gross-out anyway. And I can never figure out how they make any money from it.
But, since you mixed that with an attack on day care, and by proxy, working parents, you can add our extraordinarily well-behaved, now school-aged, child to the list of those not requiring duct-tape and who’ve been in day care (well, since 18 months). We get good behavior because we expect good behavior, and require all kinds of tedious chores and helping out, etcetera. But I am the primary breadwinner in my family, and if I quit, we’d have to declare bankruptcy the next day. I think it’s great when people can afford to have a spouse at home, but believe me, we didn’t both work because we can’t economize. Give the working people an f’ing break. Good daycare is good for kids. Bad daycare is bad for kids.

We can afford to both go part-time when our next child is born, and I’m grateful for that, but I don’t condemn as spendthrift jerks those who have no choice. And we’ll cheerfully use the same excellent daycare again, part-time.

4

(shudder) Amway!!

A friend of mine was involved in that crap. Her family had nine children, and neither of the parents worked. They were always involved in the latest get-rich-quick scheme, and had their kids out and about pushing the Amway products like there was no tomorrow.

Amway apparently sells everything from toilet paper to cars. A bit pricier than you’d pay in a store, I found. My biggest pet peeve was that every time I mentioned to her that I needed to run to the store to buy this or that, she would pipe up with “Well, Amway sells that!” They bought nearly everything from Amway, and their garage looked like Sam’s Club with bulk boxes of paper towels, diapers, and cartons of soap filling it to the roof.

Of course, she wanted me to hawk that stuff as well, because they would get points for any sales that I made. I politely declined.

5

My inlaws sold Amway quite vigorously in the late 70’s-early 1980’s. You cannot blaspheme this company around them because they love it and in fairness, because of their selling so much of it, Amway helped them when the economy of this country was on a downward spin. They’ve always been self employed and did make good mula on it, enough to carry them over until the economy picked up again and my FIL’s business took off again.

However, there isn’t one thing from Amway that I haven’t been able to find elsewhere cheaper. Why would I bother, I just don’t get it.

6

  1. People who can’t manage their money. I have friends like this and it galls me. They act so surprised that they are always broke, but they eat out 5 times a week, own new cars, etc. etc. etc. And if I say that I can’t afford to go out, they mock me. GRRRRRRRRRRR.

  2. People who sell stuff at parties. I’ve known people who have done well and people who wish they’d never tried. It takes a certain kind of personality to sell expensive stuff to people and make them happy they bought it. I had one Mary Kay lady who was so funny I didn’t mind buying stuff–but I insisted we do it one-on-one not at a party.

  3. People who host the !%!@#!@%#!% parties. I hate the parties. I hate being invited. I hate it when I let myself get coerced into going. I hate it when I buy anything. I hate feeling guilty when I don’t. I hate the insipid presentations. I hate the tacky games. I hate the prizes. I hate the pep talk about how much money you can make. I have never and will never host one. @#%@#%@$#%

  4. Working parents. If your friends can find a way for one of them to stay home, especially with two kids, more power to them. Daycare for two kids will eat them alive. Some kids can thrive in day care and some can fall apart at home. It behooves all of us to cut each other some slack on this issue. Life choices of this nature are tough and none of us are (is?) ever too secure that we made the right one.

Oh, but this is the pit. So, you, whoever is reading this–yes, YOU! Hey! Don’t turn away!! I’m talking to you, buster. YOU clearly made the wrong choice!

7

[BIG ASS RAMBLE ALERT]
Nightengale, I did not realize that there were full time positions at Avon ( or any other company like this. I just never thought much about them.) You were very lucky to have a mom willing to go the extra mile for her family. I don’t think I could sell avon, per se for the extra cash. I’d probably wait tables or bag groceries.

I have a cousin that makes fair money selling Mary Kay stuff ( some of which I do like,but have found comparable products elsewhere for more than 70% less.) but it is the amount of effort you put into your product and just how much you believe in the product.

Hezibah,

First, I don’t understand how these home show parties make any money with having to provide food for the guests. I don’t get it either.

I understand and give the average working stiff with kids a break where a break is due. I don’t begrudge daycare per se, in fact I have seen instances where a day care enviroment is so much better for the child and the mother because the mother has low to no self esteem and does do real well with her child ( this is another dipwad neighbor who really should work outside the home and put her child in daycare. It would boost her nearly nonexistant self esteem.)

This is a ramble, I would apologize, but it’s the PIT.

What I do begrudge are people like the aforementioned dipwad neighbors who WANT kids, but DON’T realize that if you want to stay at home with them you have to make some cut backs in order to keep the cash flow on the positive side. This couple have two brand new cars ( a minivan which is needed and one of those big ass new Dodge Ram pick ups that they never use for hauling anything but their fat asses around. - if they did alot of landscaping or construction then I could justify the purchase, but it is a phallic mobile for the husband.) and a third car that is paid off in the drive that they won’t part with, yet they never drive.

They have a lifestyle that they don’t want to give up. Here’s a cold hard fact of life: You can’t have a (quote} lifestyle {unquote} and children. Unless you win the lottery or are Bill Gates, it’s one or the other. When you feel like you are sacrificing something to have kids ( a career comes to mind) then it will eventually turn to bitterness and resentment somewhere along the way. You have to make the choice to stay at home ( or stay at work) because it is best for you and your family.

They also entertain alot and go out every weekend. I won’t even mention the constant shopping that the wife does for crap she has admitted she doesn’t need.

ALSO, my husband built their house and they really liked a particular layout. He told them before anything was agreed upon that the bigger the house, the more in taxes you pay. Must have told them that 20 times. He offered a scaled down version of the lay out they liked. But they were coming from a 900 sq foot house. Now they have 2700 sq ft and were in a new house haze daze. Every year when the taxes are due,all we hear about is bitch bitch bitch about how they have to scrimp and sweat over where in the hell are they gonna come up with $2,500 or so for the taxes.

She asked me what would she do if I were in her situation, I hate it and love it when these questions are put to me. I usually make peoples head spin by my frugal living ideas. I am definately not a Gen X’er and hardly a Baby Boomer that I technically kinda am. I’m more of a depressionary ero mentality with a dash of Boomer in me. They must think I’m a fucking hermit with wads of hidden cash in the coffee can under the mattress.Got the coffee can, it just has pennies in it. I also usually alienate people because I just hate and cannot understand constant wastefulness and I tend to prolytize the frugal life style a little to zealously. It’s taken alot for me to learn how not to bite the heads off of these people. Hell, I’m more lenient about other people and their religious views than their financial belief system.

[sidebar] I’ve come to the conclusion that most peoples finacial beleif system is to be broke. [/sidebar]

I very simply said: Sell the spare car and the golf cart ( probably make about $3,500 for the two.) which might pay off most of the outstanding credit card debt. Sell the pick up and get a quality used car, like a station wagon,where the mileage is better and insurance is cheaper and it can still be used to haul the annual potted plant to and fro. I would also take a different job at the company I work at ( she cannot go part time in her department, she’d have to change job titles and duties completely.) and become a secretary or something. It would be a step down in pay and prestige, but I (she) would be able to job share and keep the bennies going. (she has excellent bennies, something of which I never had when I was in the real world.)

My neighbor will not sell the spare car ( Of which I might justify as we right now have four paid off cars sitting in our drive. Two are used daily, a third is our good car - 120k on it - that when the oldest car finally dies, we donate it. One is getting donated to charity as soon as I find one that gives us the biggest tax break.) and selling the golf cart is completely out for god knows what reason.(They are lazy as sin.) Doing a downward move at her job is not her thing, which I almost understand that, until she said (the non college grad she is, like me.) " It’s beneath me to due secretarial work." of which I shot back, " But it’s not below you to push Amway ( or whatever) on your relatives and friends?"

She and her husband are not exactly the most motivated people (The golf cart is the biggest clue to that, along with every infomercial work out equipment that has ever been on the market in the last 15 years is in their basement, untouched. Some still in boxes.)and I just cannot picture them rising to the top sales force.

Jesus, this is a rant and the funny thing is is that I really like this couple. They are the lesser of all the evil dipwads on the block.

I still give them a year. Outside shot of 18 months if she makes this decision to stay at home. If they do join reality and do make it, she’ll die of fucking boredom. I’m not talking suburbia boredom. I’m talking rural area fucking boredom.

We are too remote and isolated for a quick trip somewhere. I like being by myself and I have a philosphy of " If I am bored, its my fault." All the other Stay at home mom’s on the big ass block I live on ( seven houses) are constantly driving hither and yon every day to escape boredom.

[/big ass ramble]
If anyone read this diatribe, you have lots of patience and I thank you.

8

Golf cart? Spare car? We’re just hoping the wheels stay on the Jetta…

Okay, sounds like they’re worth ranting about. You’re right, of course, you can’t stay home and expect to enjoy the same “lifestyle”.

9

Former friends of ours got into Amway big time, to the point where we have all quit associating with them because they kept using our social gatherings as a springboard for their Amway pitches.

When Mike would start on one of his pitches, with his standard line, “So, are you where you want to be financially?” we were polite at first, then eventually became more and more hostile.

Our friend Rob finally scared him away. He answered Mike’s question with, “I don’t know. Are you where YOU want to be right now?”

Mike started in on his “Amway is great” sermon, but Rob interrupted and said, quite loudly, “No. I don’t mean financially. I mean physically. Is this where you want to be right now? Cause I tell you, Mike, I’d rather be picking lint out of my ass than having this conversation with you right now.”

I’m sure they scratch their heads now and wonder why they’re no longer invited to the Super Bowl party…

10

I used to be a sucker for these things. The most popular ones here (in rural Iowa) are Home Interiors (home “decor”), Mary Kay, Weekenders (knit clothing), Longaberger (baskets), Pampered Chef, and some candle thing.

Home Interiors are the worst – it is SO popular – you can go into just about anyone’s home and find the same pictures and artificial flowers and sconces (ewww) on everyone’s walls and tables.

None of it actually reflects anyone’s personality, hobbies or lifestyle. It’s like buying books by the yard to fill up your bookshelves, and arranging them by color. (I knew a guy who did that once too.)

11

I think Rob and I were seperated at birth. But(t) seriously, when someone uses your friendship for their own great good every time, they are not a friend.

12

Just to jump on board with a minority opinion regarding Amway…

… been there, done that.

We stopped. Not because the products were bad (they weren’t) or because you could get everything cheaper at a store (you can’t - you can get some cheaper at a store, but some is cheaper through Amway).

We stopped because the majority of peole who take a whack at it do it wrong and screw things up for the people doing it right.

I support Clark Howard’s views on MLM’s - If you believe in the company and products, and are willing to work hard at it, give it a try.

But, most Amway Androids don’t do either.

You shouldn’t badmouth the company - it’s a fantastic company with quality products, a great history and over $8 Billion a year in revenue. Badmouth the jackasses who are looking to get rich quick and don’t want to work at it.

In my plan, I used to tell people that the idea was to compress 40 years of work into 3 - 5 years. Think about that for a sec… That would be a tough 3 - 5 years, wouldn’t it?

Most people decide not to hear that part.

Check out http://www.amway.com - The info is there. Good company, etc. It’s just that the format of their opportunity attracts a lot of idiots, losers and buttheads. Too bad.

Like I said, been there, done that.

13

sdimert, Amway/Pampered Chef may be wonderful products. It’s their pyramid scheme of selling that I object to. When you accept an invitation to a party, you are a guest of that person. For the host to use that social occasion as a venue to cajole and harrass the guests into not only buying their merchandise, but also having ANOTHER party so that they can earn all sorts of fabulous prizes, THEN I object.

Amway is particularly insidious b/c they not only want to sell products, but they want to recruit more people into their pyramid scheme. The Pampered Chef rep doesn’t necessarily want me to become a PC rep, as I would then be in competition with her. The Amway rep, however, does want to recruit me. And when people look at their friends as a recruiting pool, then we have a problem.

And that is why people hate Amway so much.

14

Right on, Shirley and Lisa! I went to a Pampered Chef party a few months ago and was very disappointed. I figured that I’d wind up being guilted into buying something, but I didn’t realize how strong to pitch to throw our own parties would be. After the umpteenth time the rep asked me if I would host a party, I told her “Look, I don’t actually have any friends, I just got invited here out of pity”. She seemed to think I was joking…

I don’t know about the other companies mentioned, but I have to say that I was not impressed with either the Pampered Chef’s products or prices. And if you buy the recipe books, it’s full of stuff like: Take your 7" pampered chef knife and cut up a zuchinni on your rectangular pampered chef cutting board, then place the pieces in your red pampered chef mixing bowl. Gag me! And the sample food they had at the party was pretty icky…everything seemed to be based on convience foods.

15

PunditLisa:

You’re right.

My point (which you are supporting, BTW) is that the Amway Corporation does not promote the sort of behavior you describe.

I am not even going to go into the reasons why Amway’s Sales and Marketing Plan is not a “Pyramid Scheme.” (You want a Pyramid, head on over to The Grand Pyramid You Already Participate In.) Amway’s plan is an incentive-based sales program, just like the ones used by traditional sales organizations. But, I don’t want to get into that.

The behavior you describe finds its origination in the people doing things wrong, not the one doing it right.

A well-written post (ahem :wink: ) earlier said:

Again - your “friends” are not following any sort of instruction that comes from the Corporation - everything they do that annoys you is taught by thier upline.

There are good and bad uplines - it’s that simple. Trust me… when I was in Amway, I didn’t do the things you are describing.

Like everything else in life, the fault lies with the people, not the program.

16

Ummm, i don’t get it. What does Social Security have to do with a pyramid scheme that Amway constantly touts NOT being ( yet they -and mary kay/avon and the other dredges) recruit at every party.

I wasn’t recruited into SS, I don’t sell anything for SS. I don’t lure my friends into my house on the premise of a get together and then hawk cheezy products that say Social Security.

Am I missing something?

17

Shirley Ujest:

Short answer: In a nutshell, yes.

Long Answer: (:sigh:) Here goes…

The info I am quoting comes from a site called Pyramid Schemes, Ponzi Schemes, and Related Frauds. I am sure it is not the best, but the info is clear I didn’t want to take to long to search.

I suppose I was a bit unclear with my language. Social Security isn’t really a Pyramid, it’s a Ponzi Scheme. Look:

**

So, a Ponzi Scheme…
[ul]
[li]Pays money to early investors entirely out of money paid into the scheme by newer investors,[/li][li]is operated by a central company and[/li][li]is run by one company that collects money from new participants and uses this money to pay off promised returns to earlier participants.[/li][/ul]

Sound familiar? Ponzi was put in prison for doing this. The only reason Social (in)Security is legal is because the government thought it up.

Look, the term “Baby Boomer” means that there were more people in that generation than any other before it. Simple analysis - when the large generation retires, the smaller generation which follows it will have no SS funds to rely on. Simple.

Now, on to your other question - Why isn’t Amway a pyramid:

**

So, in order for something to be a “Pyramid,” profits must come as a direct benefit of recruiting new participants. In Amway, profit comes from only the sale of product. When a new distributor joins, their sign-up fees cover paperwork and product, and the recriuting distributor sees not even a dime of it.

Regarding those “parties” you hate where your friends blindside you with pleas to join and buy? Those are your friends’ falut, not the Amway Corporation’s.

Hope that clears things up.

18

sd, admittedly my only experience is my two friends who became Amway zombies. They lived and breathed Amway, as I’ve said, to the point where their friends felt very uncomfortable around them. While I can’t argue with you about whether it truly was a pyramid scheme, I can tell you that they put immense pressure on their friends to join the bandwagon and buy these products. They called the person who recruited them “father” or something equally bizarre. And Linda requested her child be induced 2 weeks early so that they could attend the annual conference in Atlanta.

Your experience may have been positive. But what little I knew about it gave me the creeps, quite honestly. It was almost cult like.

19

Re Ponzi schemes and SS: There are a couple differences. In classic (illegal) Ponzi schemes, the initial investors get the bulk of the “profits” (which is made using new capital received from new recruits), while the guys who come in later generally get screwed because the recruit pool gets slimmer and slimmer. In SS there is no advantage for “joining” early. SS recipients who retire in 2000 will still receive benefits, just as the retirees who retired in 1990 and 1980, etc.

Secondly, in Ponzi schemes, the person who runs the scheme has the latitude to “invest” in whatever he wants. It’s illegal, so there’s no federal guidelines. The SS Administrator on the other hand, does not have the latitude to invest in real estate, the stock market, etc. So the money is fairly safe. Well, until our congressmen raid it to pay off other things, but that’s unrelated to the Ponzi theory you’ve set forth.

Thirdly, by law everyone who works (except exempt employees, like govt workers who have PERS) has to contribute. Ponzi administrators have no such luxury.

Finally, Ponzi schemes are supposed to give you maximum return for minimum investment. SS, by definition, is just supposed to be enough to get you by.

20

Um, I take exception to classifying Avon reps as “scurvy subhumans”. I have sold Avon for years, I make great SUPPLEMENTAL income from it, and I don’t bug people. Avon is not a pyramid scam. You sell a product from a catalog for a set price and you get paid based on your sales, period. There is no pressure, harassment, or scam involved.

Zette