This is not something I’ve followed in great detail, so I can’t pretend to be fully aware of all arguments for and against. But whenever I hear the issue discussed, by far the most common argument I hear in favor of admitting Turkey to the EU is, essentially, to improve relations with the Muslim world – to prove that the EU is not just a Christian club, to help assimilate Muslims already living in the EU, to prove that a Muslim country can be a stable, successful democracy, etc.
In the long run, is that reason enough? EU accession is a big deal, and a big commitment, and I’m not sure in the long run if “trying to prove a point” is a good enough argument. If it was just one among several equal arguments (reasons of history, culture, economics, geography, etc.) then I would be more convinced, but I currently get the impression that by far the main drive for accession is to make a quick shortcut to achieve current political goals.
What do you think? As I mentioned above, I haven’t followed the debate too closely, and I’m not settled on any opinion yet, so I’d be interested in hearing different viewpoints.
The long and short of it is that the EU promised Turkey a fair shot at admittance if Turkey complied with a list of demands from the EU. Turkey has complied with those demands and now the EU is balking at living up to their end of the bargain due to the bigotry of some of its members (I’m looking at you, Austria).
Is Turkey big and poor? Yes. But they used to be poorer, and in any case, the EU should have thought of that before it made promises and demands it didn’t want to live up to. If the EU reneges on its promises, then it will be a disaster. It will hand a major victory to the anti-Western, pro-Islamist factions and possibly swing the pendulum to the other side and cause the overturning of lots of reforms that Turkey made trying to appease the EU.
Neurotik – when were those promises made, and by whom?
tagos – I don’t think it’s just bigotry, though that’s certainly an element. It’s also just about defining where Europe ends. Geographically speaking, doesn’t only about 4% of Turkey lie in Europe? A greater percentage of Russia, by anyone’s measure, is European – should that be next on the accession list? How about Morocco – the Moors are also deeply entwined in European history, and, technically, part of the EU even borders on Morocco (Spanish enclaves in that country). Should Morocco also join?
I’m not that hung up on geography. If Israel can be in the Eurovision Song Contest and Turkey play in the European Championship then Turkey can be a part of Europe if it makes the world a better place. And for me a European style moderate democracy on the inside is better than an Islamic Theocracy on the outside and maps be damned.
I’ve got plenty of beefs with the EU and it’s ludicrous farm subsidies and trade barriers but I really don’t care what religion a populance of a member country is.
And if Russia wants to join the EU, fine by me so long as it abides by the rules and sorts its house out like Turkey has been obliged to do.
If you’re really not that hung up on geography, I’ve read serious arguments that Canada should be the next country admitted to the EU.
I can’t imagine the day that Russia would join the EU – even if it met the necessary requirements, it probably couldn’t humble itself to ask to join the club. But wow, what if it did – and EU stretching from the Atlantic to the Pacific, bordering on China and practically everything in between. Either it would be the world’s greatest superpower, or an unmanageable disaster.
Everybody loves Canada! The world’s favorite country. Everybody wants a piece of the action.
The news today is: Austria agreed to drop its obstructionism. (Still sore about 1683, dudes? Get over it!) The talks for Turkey’s full membership will now go ahead. Expected to take 10 years. Turkey has been an associate member since 1963, way back when it was called the “le Marché Commun.”
I think it’s a little soon to bring Turkey into the EU: I simply don’t see any benefit to the EU from so doing and there’s a whole lot of Eastern Europe to integrate first. Equally, it’s not too soon to talk about it.
On the Turkish side, I do see religious extremism as a real danger to Turkey’s prospects. Not because it’s Islam, but because in Turkey the seperation between religion and state seems rather tenuous, whereas in the EU, religion is very much secondary. Put another way, in the West, religions are content to manipulate (often to great effect q.v. Poland); in the Middle East, they want to rule. What would the rest of Europe do if the Islamic Party (AKP) which has gained power in Turkey turned hardline?
On the European side, we’re going through considerable convulsions - witness the recent EU Constitution fiasco - and have recently added much new territory. I think we’re going to need a long time - 10 to 20 years - to settle down.
What I would suggest is that we work towards bringing Turkey into EFTA, not the EU. Ironic, as I would much prefer the U.K. to be leave the EU as it currently is but remain in EFTA.
Believe it or not, EU accession of the states of the South Caucasus has seriously been discussed, at least as a long-range possibility. Likewise Iceland, which is of Europe but not in it. Some kind of association with the Maghreb states has also been discussed. (Morocco applied for membership but was rejected – which does not preclude future applications.) See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_the_European_Union#Future_enlargement_possibilities.
If you want to point out that there are conservative, or even extremist, Muslims in Turkey, that’s a valid point.
But the separation between mosque and state is probably stricter in Turkey than the separation b/t church and state is in the US. Government workers are not allowed to display any relgious symbols at work, to the point that women are prohibited from wearing veils in public buildings. Prayer is prohibited in government institutions (compare that to the US Congress!) According to many Turks I’ve spoken to, the idea of putting In God We Trust (or a similar phrase) on Turkey’s lira is generally considered to be bizarre and offensive.
As an American, for selfish reasons I’m glad that the Turkey-EU-membership talks are going ahead. Because if the Iraq situation ends up producing an independent or semi-independent Kurdistan that wants to combine with Turkey’s Kurdish region, Turkey is gonna be pissed as hell at us. I’d feel happier if they still have a strong motive to play nice with the EU rather than being ticked off at the whole western world simultaneously. (Except for Canada, of course. Yes, everybody loves Canada! :))
And Quartz and Ravenman, you’re both sort of right. Yes, the former Islamic Party, renamed the “Justice and Development Party”, won the elections handily in 2002, but Turkey’s secular-government traditions are still quite strong. I think it’s fair to say that many US politicians are less separatist about state and Christianity than most Turkish politicians are about state and Islam.
Yes, and the AKP won power in 2002 in large margin because it campaigned on a platform of shelving its Islamist roots in favor of EU integration. With the exception of the proposal to allow religious school graduates into college, I strain to think of a single policy initiative the government has made that would substantively indicate an interest in reversing the secularist policies.
To illustrate, PM Erdogan said in 2004, “While attaching importance to religion as a social value, we do not think it right to conduct politics through religion, to attempt to transform government ideologically by using religion… Religion is a sacred and collective value… It should not be made a subject of political partisanship causing divisiveness … to make religion an instrument of politics and to adopt an exclusionary approach to politics in the name of religion harms not only political pluralism but also religion itself.”
If you want to make the case that the AKP is hiding their religious agenda, then explain your case. There are certainly points to be made here. But simply calling the AKP an Islamist party is a very poor argument. You’ll have to do better than that.
Yeah, that’s another thing. If Turkey, with its current borders, is admitted to the EU, then the EU takes on the Kurdish problem as its own, to some extent. Certainly Kurdish members will be elected to the European Parliament, and we can expect them to agitate for EU support for Kurdish independence. Big headache. Frankly, I think the best thing the Turks could do to fast-track their EU application would be to let their Kurdish provinces go; but I doubt they’d regard that as a fair exchange.
-More generally, Turkey is culturally different. Could it cause problems.
-Some argue that the EU has to stop expanding somewhere. Is Turkey beyond that limit? Who’s next? (Morocco has stated that it will be candidate if Turkey join the Union, for instance).
-Turkey is poor. Structural aid will have to be augmented and/or diverted from other countries currently benefitng from it.
-For the same reason, many are affraid that Turks will emigrate “en masse” and “steal” the european jobs.
-Turkey has a large population. It would be the second most populated country in the EU after Germany. Some are worried about its future influence (representation in the Parliament, EU commission, etc…)
-Some people aren’t convinced that Turkey’s political stability is guaranteed. It’s not that long ago that the mlitary were in the habit of ousting governments they didn’t like.
-Some are opposed to Turkey joining as long as the Armenian genocide hassn’t been recognized.
-Some are very unwilling to inherit the Kurd probem.
-Some don’t like much the idea of the EU having borders with countries like Syria, Irak and Iran
I probably forgot some…
Everybody wants a piece of the action.