Turkish flagged vessel attack [What if?--becomes What now?]

What are you suggesting? Would you like to qualify your allegation by telling us all what a “champion of Conspiracy Theories” involves?

You mean I can’t provide evidence that satisfies you, more like. If someone came up with a signed confession by Paul Wolfowitz, someone would still say it was forged, and if he appeared live on tv saying it, some would say his words were taken out of context.

I think I’ve made a few relevant points to this discussion, but I’m too modest to point them out myself.

The fact that you wont even recognise one decent point, says more about you and your attitude towards me, than it says about me as a poster.

Twisting my words to mean the opposite of what I have posted is not helpful. I did not ever address the issue of the quality of any of your “evidence,” and I made no claim that you had made no useful points. I noted that you are incapable of considering that the “Peace Activists” (or the WTC/Penatgon attackers) were capable of engaging in conspiracies. Therefore, your general contributions are less relevant, because you are simply waving your arms and yelling “conspiracy” at whomever you hate on any given occasion.

Even everyone’s favorite bête noir, Finn, has acknowledged that Israel’s embargo has flaws. All you appear to be able to do is make dire pronouncements that the Israelis are not telling us everything or telling the truth.

I’m glad you can introduce some levity to this discussion.

I can rent them to you for a ha’penny… (ah the humour)

Not quite my point. Its about the circular reasoning on the peace terrorists intentions. For instance, it is pointed out that the “arsenal” of weapons were nothing more than ordinary tools and implements. What makes that an arsenal? The violent intentions of the peace terrorists. What proves the violent intentions of the peace terrorists? The possession of an arsenal. All of which supports the utterly peaceful intentions of the party that arrived on the scene with armed soldiers and war ships. The fact that they arrived with actual soldiers, with an actual arsenal, is blithely brushed aside.

Sometimes a dose of sarcasm can jolt the circular reasoning out of its groove, but you have to simplify it down to its basic absurdity. The violent intentions of the passengers is proven by soldiers injuries, but somehow the actual death of some passengers is held to have no bearing on the peaceable intentions of the IDF.

Gaza flotilla activists were shot in head at close range

Apparently, peacable intentions means shooting em before and after they’re down.
That being the case, this is not a big surprise:

Israel rejects UN call for international inquiry into flotilla raids

Who the fuck are Israel to think they can just reject an international commission, and instead sort things out with the help of their main ally?

OK.

Umm, where is the PM button?

Sorry, I thought it was general knowledge but I see others have provided a cite. I think I read it in one of those articles that other people cited.

Those so-called peace activists included members of parliament, a nobel peace prize winner, a 1 year old baby and 89 year olds. They may have been inviting a confrontation but if so then they were doing it more like Gandhi than Hamas. I don’t know about Israel but most people here don’t think of Amnesty international and human rights watch as being pro-Palestinian because they have some special love for the Palestinians. They are Pro-Palestinian because the Palestinians are the ones that seem to be living in poor conditions.

I’m not really sure what those lying Palestinian bastards have to do with this discussion.

Why did they knock the axe heads off the axe handles? Why not swing axes at these soldiers heads? Wouldn’t that be more effective? Why bring slingshots when you can bring rifles, wouldn’t they be more effective? You can’t on the one hand say “IDF didn’t want to kill anyone despite the fact that they brought along guns because they started off by using paintballs and stuff” and then accuse the humanitarians of murderous intent when they use axe handles with the axe heads broken off can you?

Yeah, confiscating video footage and not showing entire videos is kind of like a damning silence.

[quote=“Inbred_Mm_domesticus, post:998, topic:540765”]

I hope not but the Turks might do so only because it is working political wonders for a government that apparently has been on the ropes like every other incumbent government in the world.

They’re a sovereign nation, like any other.

While the Israeli approach to public relations I believe long-ago passed into the realm of self-harm and diminishing returns from the reflexive "Everyone who criticizes us is a terrorist sympathiser’ narrative, they are perfectly within their rights. In some ways, due to people like you, I don’t entirely blame them, although as noted, I believe this approach has long been more harmful than helpful.

Go into your user control panel and activate private messaging. Right now you have it turned off.

Hey, I just got back from vacation and spotted this thread. Could someone summarize the previous 20 1/2 pages and the consensus reached?

Thanks.

Due to people like me? Do you want to elaborate on what that means? Are you implying that my asking awkward questions on the internet is somehow some sort of deliberate, malicious act against Israel?

Israel kill opponents; claim opponents had hostile intent. All is well.

You know, or apparently you don’t and others have indicated likewise, that this was supposed to be a joke.

As wmfellows noted Israel is a sovereign nation. Would the USA consent to an international tribunal in a similar situation? The answer is No, and the US has not consented to the jurisdiction of the World Court over our citizens.

[edited 2:57 to correct the coding, I hope]

I think we eventually got a consensus that the 4th Geneva Convention did allow the Israelis to intercept the blockade-runners even though they were still in international waters. I don’t think the two sides have agreed on anything since then.

Well, this is not germane to this topic. The links are old, but this is what they said:

"Even as the cannons roar we shall not cease from longing for peace."

Seriously? An Israeli PM said that? That is just so much hypocritical bs.

Got a cite for that? It’s not my impression that AKP has been losing ground to anyone.

Several posts have indicated that Israel was stupid for attacking a Turkish flotilla because Turkey has been a great friend of Israel. I answered that before, briefly, but that statement has again been expressed. Turkey recently has declared that Hamas is not a terrorist organization even though the US, Israel, and most of the “international community” have stated that she is. Turkey has also undertaken action recently indicating that she wishes to be divorced from her Israeli friendship, including the launching of this flotilla, and that she wants to be allied with Hamas, Iran, Syria, and other Arab states.

Perhaps in the near future all the facts will be ironed out as to exactly what happened on 5/31. This much is known: Five ships were towed to port without casualty. A subsequent ship obediently obeyed Israel’s enforcement of the blockade. The one ship that had casualties had members of terrorists’ organizations on board. The intention of the ship with casualties was to break the blockade and confront the Israelis. If those on board did not so confront the Israelis, nobody would’ve been hurt. Israel contends that she is delivering humanitarian aid, and she has allowed humanitarian aid in the vessels to be delivered to Gaza, but she has to inspect the goods to eliminate materiel that can be used against her.

Many do not understand the need for the blockade. If ships are allowed to enter Gaza without inspection, Gaza (and Hamas) will be equipped with a better arsenal and increase her bombardment of Israel. (BTW, I repeat, the UN has not taken any steps to protect Israel in this regard. In Lebanon, a UN force is supposed to be present, but from all reports, the UN personnel there are actually helping Hezbollah.)

The UN is controlled by the Arab states and Israel can not look for any help in that direction - only hindrance. Israel is under an existential threat: her very existence is threated from all directions. As noted by a different poster, even Europe now appears to be antisemitic, and that was before this incident. England has always been antisemitic, and it has spread to France and other countries. The poster did not know the reason, but stated it appeared to have morphed from an anti-Zion culture, which doesn’t explain where the anti-Zionism arose.

I’ll also note that although Hamas has been building nice seaside resorts, she has left basic infrastructure, such as schools, to flounder. She has the money for resorts but not for basic needs.

You can’t be serious. Nobody wants peace more than Israel. Her very existence depends upon peace. The Palestine leaders want peace, too, but on their terms: no Jewish state. Many Palestinians do not object to a Jewish state beside a state of Palestine, just so long as there is peace. I wish to reiterate that the Palestinian maps do not show a state of Israel, but label the entire area as “Palestine.” I also wish to reiterate that the destruction of Israel remains in the Palestine charter.