Twitter bans MyPillow corporate account after Mike Lindell uses it to circumvent personal Twitter ban

Politics & Elections
#101

I believe that obedience-based morality is the weakest form of morality, because it not only results in ‘just following orders’ situations like “slavery is okay because God says so”, but it also sets you in an adversarial position to you own moral system, where one can search for loopholes or gaps or just cheat if they think they can get away with it.

This does not mean that all christians are morally bankrupt; many of them have things like empathy that lead them to develop more mature moral systems that they use alongside their religious morality, often while conflating the two. But it does mean that I never assume that a christian has decent morality, because there is a decent chance that they were never taught a moral system worth using.

#102

??? Irrespective of which of them ended up violating secular moral codes more egregiously, this distinction doesn’t make any sense in the first place.

Although Jews don’t accept the Christian notion of a divine Son of God, they certainly share the concept of God as a Divine Father to whom humans are answerable for their actions. Heck, the Christian notion of the Divine Father judging His children is directly derived from Jewish doctrine.

#103

This sounds like one of this trick questions where the answer is actually your wife. :slight_smile:

#104

I never got told that if I didn’t behave God would kick my butt. We got taught that the patriarchs argue with God. Look at Abraham. Look at Jacob. Look at Tevye.
We don’t have a hell to get shipped to if we disobey. The good and the bad both die. Supposedly the bad die earlier, but that isn’t the way it seems to work out, not in real life, not in the Bible.
I became an atheist because I lost god belief. I was never unhappy with my religion when I had it. And I never got threatened with anything.

#105

For those who believe that morality can derive only from God’s diktat, it’s common to hear them question why atheists would not be unscrupulously evil; extreme aversion to atheism seems to derive from this. The frightening conclusion, of course, is that such believers would become unscrupulously evil if they lost their faith.

It is not moral to refrain from bad acts only because you seek reward and fear punishment. Morality requires that you act well because it is the right thing to do, even when nobody is looking.

#106

Eh, you were raised in a modern liberal form of Judaism. There are plenty of Christians who were likewise raised in a modern liberal form of Christianity who never got threatened with divine butt-kicking or hellfire either.

But none of that contradicts the fact that Jews and Christians share the fundamental theological concept of God as a Divine Father who judges and considers humans responsible for their actions. Irrespective of how much or in what way He undertakes to kick their butts for misbehavior.

#107

Hijack alert.

Having been raised in a secular household, I’m not versed in religion. I’ve heard that [Some? Early?] Jews believe there’s no afterlife; that when you die, you cease to exist. Is that what you’re saying? If so, what’s the point in having a god?

#108

My understanding, for at least some, is that we die but sometime later we get resurrected. That’s why there is opposition to autopsies and tattoos and burial is supposed to be fast. That’s also why when one of the prophets went to heaven it was a big deal, as opposed to a religion which believes that all the virtuous go to heaven. (Or saved, or whatever.)
There are obviously other opinions - we are Jews, after all.

But many of the actions that would get our butt kicked are fine for those who do not subscribe to the Covenant. That is a basic difference which those who grew up thinking God rules over all whether they know it or not. If I don’t keep the Sabbath it’s a big deal, you’re not expected to keep the Sabbath.
Someday I am going to read the Talmud so I can really understand this stuff.

#109

And many of them become unscrupulously evil simply by convincing themselves that they’re doing God’s will.

#110

Frequently religious people, especially those in ultra-orthodox or fundamentalist groups, rely on their church leaders to interpret the word of God and define right and wrong.

I was recently reading about a cult called The Way that was prevalent in the the 70’s and 80’s. I believe they still exist in some form, and have some relationship to a group called The Prevailing Word. These religious cults are always fracturing and splintering, with the various factions ebbing and flowing in power and influence, it’s very difficult to track.

These particular groups believe in biblical inerrancy, the idea that the Bible is the literal written word of God. The Way took this mission very seriously, sponsoring studies of Aramaic and other ancient languages and 1st century customs, comparing various versions of the Bible in an attempt to resolve what they felt were inconsistencies in the various translations.

Much as a Constitutional scholar might study the phrasing and language of the Constitution in order to determine the intent of the framers, these “scholars” were attempting to determine the intent of God by analyzing Biblical language and phrasing in the context of 1st century customs.

One of the unique interpretations they came up with had to do with adultery. The church leaders were intent on proving that the prohibition against “adultery” in the Bible did not refer to physical adultery, but spiritual adultery, allowing unclean and blasphemous thoughts to sully the purity of the mind. In their version of Christianity, the Bible did not prohibit physical adultery as long as the participants were in the proper spiritual state of mind.

As you might guess, this twist on the word of God was awfully convenient for the cult leaders, who used it as an excuse to sexually abuse cult members - not only in the obvious way… telling them that screwing the leader was God’s will, but by selectively restricting members from intimacy with their married partners (strong interpersonal relationships threaten cult dominancy) by telling them they were not in the correct spiritual mindset to have non-adulterous sex.

And the cult members believed them. This is the danger involved in transferring your moral agency to your God or your church.

#111

Not at all. It was the Christian of course.

Jews worship God, of course, but we do not have the concept of an eternal afterlife to worry about. So we do not have to “answer to” him.

#112

I surmised, just the way it was laid out…

“I have a friend who told me of two of his acquaintances. One has no arms, one has no legs. One of them robbed a bank. Which one do you think it was?”

Answer: My friend.

Just don’t ask him if one of his daughters was born on a Thursday.

#113

But did he come into town on Friday?

#114

And that was the end of Solomon Grundy…

#115

There’s nothing in the Torah about an afterlife, so it’s all tradition and conjecture. But there are no Jewish traditions I’m aware of with a hell and eternal punishment.

It’s contractual. The Jews follow God’s laws, and God agrees to specifically watch out for the Jews. God’s specific obligations are pretty unclear, but we like it that way because it gives us lots to argue about.

#116

So it’s kind of like The Godfather. I always wondered where the word “God” came from, maybe it was from the movie?

#117

At a Christian baptism, there are godparents who agree to be the child’s mentor.

#118

Yes, and traditionally, at least in some sub-cultures, during the baptism the godfather murders all his rivals.

#119

Damn, I must have missed that step. Everyone was alive at the end of the baptism I attended as godfather.

#120

Did the guns jam?