First of all, the mother on that plane sounded like a total cunt, Una. I’m sorry you had to deal with her.
Kids suck ass sometimes.
That said, I’m with Gundy on puzzlement over this purported Doper mob of blind kid-defenders. Yes, there are people on the boards who have a gift of being kind-hearted and generous when it comes to excusing unruly kidlet behavior. But where is this army of morons who apparently comes flying into threads defending Children Uber Alles? I tend to jump in when I think someone is being an outright unreasonable bigot about small folk, but the people in “my camp” on those threads don’t seem to think children are blameless, precious treasures. The consensus seems to be that they deserve some slack, but parents can and should play an important role in mitigating the annoyance to fellow diners/passengers/guests.
Maybe I don’t read enough of these kids threads.
At any rate, I hope you never have similar problems, but if so, enlist the help of the flight attendant. Don’t let the problem force you into a place where you’ve lost your temper or control, because then you end up looking like the bad guy. Or, worse yet, things can escalate. I once sat in front of two fighting brothers who were causing real problems for those of us sitting near them. A few people quietly called their behavior to the attention of the flight attendant. I felt sorry for the flight attendant, but it was her job to kick their asses and she did it (figuratively) the whole flight. That way it never got to the level of passenger vs passenger.
RTFirefly, what a good suggestion, actually. Was the Dad with another child in another row? That was the case with the fighting brothers.
sounds to me like cretin boy’s dad intentionally had him sitting in a different seat. were I queen of the world, the solution would have been to have cretin pere et fils sitting next to each other, drooling, groping to their hearts content.
RE; the first set. I managed to travel (via plane) w/my son when he was 4. We also traveled (via car) for a 14 hour trip (he was 2) and from mid MI to south of Tampa when he was 6 and again when he was 10, w/o any incidents. It takes planning and a parent who acknowledges that sitting still for a small child, is difficult to do for hours on end but necessary in some circumstances.
Una described the second plane as a small prop-driven one that had to take two people off because of weight-balance issues, so son and dad may have been seated separately to balance out the plane. Usually, heavy passengers go in the front and lighter ones in the back.
I do remember being told in one thread that if I couldn’t control my kids, then they should not go out in public. Ain’t gonna happen.
That said, I work bloody hard with my kids who are dx’ed as autistic and ADD in public places. I don’t always succeed but I’d hope that the people around me would at least give me credit for trying. Seat kicking? My kids simply would not do that for longer than a second.
However, the paed’s receptionist who got to enjoy my kids in full flight on Monday when the paed was running an hour late should patent her killer glare. If she had been honest and told me it was an hour as opposed to saying it was a few minutes, we would have gone to the park over the road.
I can see where you’re coming from Una, I used to be like you until someone served me a properly cooked kid. So tender, it melts in your mouth.
But seriously, I think airlines should seriously consider to put heavy duty restraints on their seats, so that cases like this shouldn’t occur repeatedly. Gags and muzzles would be a nice touch too.
i’m not sure about the weight balancing, but my first thought was switching seats also.
i have two kids, the first kid was really difficult to take out to eat for the first few years. so i didn’t go out to eat with him, not much anyway, and not in formal restaurants. i did have to take a plane before, and if he ever did bother anyone, which i did my best to avoid, i was more that apologetic and quickly restrained his behaviour. kids are kids. that’s why they have parents. to keep some control.
my second is an angel. never a problem. all i have to do is say ‘no’, and even though she’s only 1, she stops. so some behaviour i beleive to be inate, not necessarily the result of poor parenting skills. doesn’t mean the parents don’t have to try extra hard to keep their kid in line though.
I think many parents who are too lazy, too intimidated by their own kids or just completely clueless about the need to raise responsible children have gotten acclimated to the misery at home this produces - at least to some degree.
Then, when they go out in public, they are able to tune out their brats’ hell-raising, even when the disturbance reaches levels that would piss off a Zen Buddhist.
Of course this is no excuse for not acting like an adequate parent. It just may explain the jaw-dropped dumbfounded look that such people often display when a normal person confronts them about their kids’ behavior.
Without intending to be overly confrontational and admitting that heavy-duty restraints are rather excessive, Cranky, if there’s some kid sitting behind you kicking the bejeezus out of you for hours on end, what would you suggest the appropriate remedy is? When, that is, the parents are unable/unwilling to bring a swift end to the behavior? Just grin and bear it because they’re kids?
Una, I sympathize completely (well, mostly: I’ve not had the pleasure of being “slept on” by a large orangutan). And I wish I hadn’t have read this, as I’m having horrible visions of crawling onto a plane Friday morning. Bleah.
Una, that was the best Pit rant in a while. Truly a pleasure.
But yeah, on the 2nd flight I would have raised holy hell. I would have screamed “RAPE!” if I were a woman, and then at landing, I would have called the cops. That goes so far beyond the ordinary crap one deals with when flying. It’s not too late even now to file a complaint with the airline, is it?
(On the first flight, if I were the owner of the computer, I might have filed suit against the lazy mother. Allowing your kids to actually damage others’ property … and this is before the deliberate vandalism stage, even. These kids will be utter nightmares as adults, and they’ll be taking care of me in the nursing home. I shudder.)
jjimm, coldfire: Did a double-take at “creche”. Most Amurrcans, I suspect, are picturing a Holy Family scene, with a wee Baby Jesus in a wee diaper. I’ve never seen that usage before! Thanks for the giggle.
You hit the nail on the head. I’m a parent too, and the OP will get no arguments from me on the crap we have to put up with from brats and their “don’t tell me how to raise my kids” jerkish parents!!
Back in my day (imagine if you will, a granny voice :D), our parents were grateful if a relative, acquaintance, or even, on some occasions, a stranger were to “assist” in demonstrating appropriate “company manners” to the child.
I had the same thing as the OP described happen to me on a flight. Not the scary young man, the two kids banging on the back of the seat.
I kept looking at them, and finally after about 2 hours I swung around, and in my meanest cranky old lady voice (quite a feat as I was, at the time all of 23), said, through clenched teeth “knock it OFF, NOW!!”.
I didn’t hear another peep for the rest of the 5 hour flight. I don’t know who their parents were either, no adult sitting near them made a peep of protest in response.
Though the lady across the aisle from them gave me an odd look. I must have looked truly deranged and dangerous (I wish :D).
But then, that was more than 20 years ago. Nowadays, as the OP says, not only do WAY too many kids have absolutely no respect for people, but their parents do have that “precious precious angel” attitude. A double whammy for those of us exposed to the “little darlings”.
I’m all for a fine being imposed upon the parents exhibiting poor parenting and control over their children on flights. Especially long ones.
I have. I can’t remember who posted the rant (Broomstick maybe?), but it was about 4 or 5 months ago.
There were SEVERAL people getting all up in arms about the rant and, ignoring that the OP was talking about a specific set of instances or circumstances (namely that kids were being brats and their parents alternately stood by and smiled indulgently or snarled “don’t tell me how to raise my kids”), started in on EXACTLY the sort of thing the OP describes in her first paragraph.
And they continued to do so despite the fact that several people told them “we’re not TALKING about all kids, just XYZ specific instances, and specific bad parenting”.
I don’t blame her for her disclaimer. The way some people respond to a rant from time to time, I’m surprised that half the rants don’t start out:
“Now, I’m not talking about you GOOD XYZs, but the Bad ones, and ONLY the bad ones”
If hours of kicking was a common occurrence, there wouldn’t be enough duct tape in the world to satisfy my desire to immobilize the child.
However, in my experience most kids get the hairy eyeball from their parents pretty fast if they act up, with backup from flight attendants if needed. The occasional disaster stories are so horrible they stick out in the mind, but they’re not common. I assumed your comment meant you’d be happy if every child was strapped down and gagged. Which attitude I find galling.
Most parents who travel are attentive and concerned for their fellow passengers. Most parents act quickly to discipline children who forget their manners. Most kids settle down and are well-behaved for the majority of the flight. The only real “problems” I’ve experienced with frequency have been screaming and wailing from infants, and that isn’t a behavior issue by any stretch.
So, what is your suggestion ? Other posters have suggested using tazers on children. I’m not sure it’s appropriate. Other have suggested tranquilizers, same objection. Continual intervention by the attendants ? They have a job to do that requires them to be aware of various situations in the whole cabin, not just a few seats. My solution is more embarrassing than anything else, can be applied also to theparents and would make a lasting impressions to them about the type of behaviour accepted in society. And, yes, I don’t like kids, doesn’t mean that I wish harm on them, just that they don’t annoy me and those around me.
Aaaaaaand if I weren’t such a cranky asshole myself, I would have remembered to extend you an apology in my last post. I owe you one if I misunderstood your meaning. I’m sorry.
I may have just lucked out thus far, but my problems on flights have been with people leaning their seatbacks so far into my lap that I can count their hair follicles, lugging huge-ass carryons that delay pushback, hogging the armrests, and having outrageously loud conversations with their seatmates. Those have far outnumbered problems with squirrelly kids.
Yes, I’ve seen it and I understand it. It would have been better if in my original post I would have explained that it should only be applied in those cases were several warnings have failed to remedy the situation. Also you’re right about screaming infants, but what can you do ?
Whatever. I have the right to not care for children, but at the same time wish them to come to absolutely no harm and to hope that they have happy, healthy, safe and fulfilling lives. And to celebrate the happiness of a multitude of friends I have online who have children and/or are expecting them. Apparently you can’t grasp that concept, and somehow drew some amazing conclusions about me from a single post. Tell you what - don’t read anything else I write, OK? Just chalk me in your “evil” column and put me on “ignore”. Because if one comment in one post has you writing me off as a person, then really, we can’t have any meeting of the minds on any issue, can we?
When did I even imply the second part? Couldn’t you find enough to object to without making something up? That’s just wrong.
That would be an odd assumption to make, and not grounded in the facts, opinions, and anecdotes I presented too. Out of 7000+ posts, is it wise that you should draw such a conclusion from a single post?
Because IRL it’s damn hard to do anything like that, even if there was a motive behind it. What would the charge be? He slumped on me during flight? He leaned on me? I did not give a nefarious criminal motive to the child in my OP - I simply stated his actions as they happened.
I do not believe he was copping any sort of feel - I think he was thoughtless and tired and doing some sort of oppositional-defiant thing with the “quite deliberately”, as I put it, leaning on me, but not for sexual or other reasons. But that doesn’t matter. Aside from some sort of rare circumstance, I don’t want a large male child draped over me and placing his body parts on top of my body parts, including his hand in my lap. The seats were more than large enough, I hardly feel that is too much to ask as a fellow traveller stuck in an overcrowded, late, cut-rate flight system that sucks ass for people of all ages - and yet a couple of people on here seem to think I have a “problem”.
The father was sitting up front three rows with what appeared to be daughter 1 and daughter 2 (could have been cousins, or charges of some sort, I don’t know), who appeared to be ages 13 and 8 respectively, and who were perfectly behaved the entire flight. No coincidence, I imagine, based on parental location. In fact, on Flight 2, only one single child, of more than a dozen on there, was a problem. He happened to be my problem. In fact as well, although I’m certain I’m near 500 flights lifetime experience (I honestly don’t know anymore), my bad child/air encounters can be counted on two hands. That seems like a small percentage to me - but it really sucks when it does happen.
Mtgman, when I say a “disturbing look”, I mean a “disturbing look”. I mean the sort of look given to you by someone that says something is not right about this situation - either the person is suffering from extreme and profound fatigue, is gravely ill, on drugs, or mentally seeing if I would fit in the crawlspace under their bed. I however had no proof which of these things was the case, I suspect a combination of fatigue and something else. For all I know he was picturing a huge rainbow coloured afro wig on me, and a sign that said “John 3:16”. All I know is, something struck me hard as Not Being Right.
