"Your spices intrigue me…"
Wasn’t this one of Elvis Presley’s lines in “It’s Now Or Never”?
Miller, once again Mtgman has stated in clear language what I would have hoped to write if I thought a little more clearly. But he has not expressed all of what I was getting at. Here’s the quote from my first post:
I think this quote makes Una come off a little, uh, wacky. I don’t know. Doesn’t like being next to people, doesn’t like males touching her…Seems like unnecessarily stressing t=something that is almost a given. Who appreciates strangers touching them? The fact that she said it, then added the thing about “males”, then added the kid clause… <sigh>
I’m actually sorry I brought it up. I’m having a problem finding the right words…I certainly wasn’t trying to be mean or anything.
CanvasShoes has commented that Una in some specific instances would like children. From the quote though, it would also follow that even if the kids were well-behaved she wouldn’t exactly be thrilled to be around them. And all this doesn’t really matter for the reasons Mtgman so clearly wrote. Doesn’t make her a bad person or anything but such a statement does cast the rest of her comments in a certain light that should be accounted for.
In a similar vein, I don’t generally like dogs. Slobbering, jumping, barking poop machines. I much prefer well behaved dogs, but I still just tolerate them, for the most part. Now, based on that information, if I ranted about the behaviour of someone’s dogs, would you just take my word for it or listen and think to yourself “he doesn’t really like dogs anyway, so it might not have been that bad”. Or allowed for exageration or something.
Wasn’t cardamom someone who disagreed with Una Perrson on another thread last year? And then she suddenly stopped posting some months ago. uh-oh. <locks door>
Wacky? Wacky?? Oh, gimme a break. There are touchy-feely people, and there are those who aren’t. Una’s making it clear which category she’s in, and subtly reminding us that she isn’t hard-wired to desire the touch of men. Plus that she isn’t crazy about kids.
There’s nothing abnormal about any of these traits, and I can’t see anything ‘wacky’ about having all three of them at once.
It may help you to understand if you know that Una is a lesbian and has had to face all the BS that many men put women of her orientation through. Leering, lewd suggestions, etc. Having a hand placed in your lap by someone of a gender you are not attracted to may offend you as well.
Enjoy,
Steven
actually, I’m a heterosexual female and I would get majorly creeped out by the actions of that lout as well. and, I would also characterize myself as ‘not touchy/feely’ ( I don’t tend to touch people except the handshake type of thing unless I consider them to be a close friend). I probably wouldn’t add in the ‘don’t like kids’ thing 'cause I do like them, but I totally understand that not everyone does and don’t find that to be an odd thing, either.
[hijack] Una, I have the pumpkin soup recipe to put all other pumpkin soup recipes to shame. My email’s below, if you want to dash an email off to me(only because I don’t see your email link down there), I’ll get the recipe to you tonight. We have this soup in my family EVERY Year, and I plan on making it for my and mr. avabeth’s solitary Thanksgiving dinner for the first time. I’m serious, it is so good, you will DROOL. Your cats and dogs will drool. The termites in the walls and the earthworms in the yard will drool and slide up to the house hoping you drop a bit when you take the trash out. That’s how good this recipe is. [/hijack]
And I just found out my flight to Disney is sold out tomorrow night. Ah, well, I like kids. I spent a flight to Vegas from NYC once with a two year old next to me who was fascinated by my Farscape DVD on the laptop. She kept pointing at it and saying “Kermit?”. Have to admit, that was one of my more interesting flights.
Ava
I don’t see anything wacky about it. How would you like to be on an airplane sitting next to a strange man who keeps sticking his hand in your lap? And lots of people don’t like children. Lord knows I don’t.
Well, I appreciate that you weren’t trying to be insulted, but when I read that, I got a big red flag in my mind: “Here’s another jerk who thinks that anyone who doesn’t like children is some sort of freak.” Which, as someone who doesn’t like children, is really very insulting. You didn’t mean to offend, and likewise, neither do I when I say this, but if you’re having trouble finding the “right words” maybe it’s best not to speak up.
I don’t think that it does. She doesn’t like kids, which establishes that the behavior of these kids was probably extra-annoying to her, but it doesn’t mean that the actions, as described, wouldn’t be just as annoying to someone who loved kids. Take the facts of the story as given: this is a pit rant, not a jury. Any reasonable person would find that behavior unacceptable. So why mention her “bias” in the first place? If it doesn’t really matter, why bring it up at all?
I love dogs, myself. My dog is a big slobbering, barking, pooping machine (no jumping, however). But if you started a thread entitled, “I just got bit by a dog!” and started off with the caveat that you don’t generally like dogs, I wouldn’t assume that you hadn’t been bitten that badly, or that you’re only complaining about getting bit because you hate dogs. And I wouldn’t say, “Well, that certainly is unacceptable, but why do you mention you don’t like dogs? That seems wacky.” Because that has nothing to do with the rant. It doesn’t matter how you feel about dogs: getting bit by one sucks. And it doesn’t matter how you feel about kids: having one kick the back of your seat for eleven hours sucks.
…ing. Insulting.
Miller, before I had kids of my own my opinion would have been different, I think. I never really cared to deal with children before I was a parent myself. Now I have kids of my own. I look fondly on them. I also tend to smile at cute kids when I see them (in the mall, the park etc), as long as they are behaving properly.
As previous posters have noted, the kids’ bad behavior reflects quite poorly on the parents, in most cases. And your “red flag” is no smaller a jump to a conclusion than I made about Una. Is yours OK because you agree with her(about kids)? But mine’s not because you don’t agree with it? Hmmmm.
Like I said before, I wasn’t trying to get anyone riled up. On reflection maybe I could have said something differently. I’m sorry that Una had such an awful trip and that she doesn’t like to be in close quarters with strangers. She handled the situations as best she could and came here to blow off some steam. My apologies for causing a ruckus. Please carry on.
avabeth - I would appreciate it, especially after you made it sound so exciting! It is una_persson@hotmail.com - TIA!
This whole thread was really to blow off steam on my part. No one need hate another person or carry a grudge away from this. It’s just a Pit rant, after all. And about pumpkin soup, too.
I don’t want to discuss my like/neutrality/dislike of kids, other than to say that it is actually nothing I ever made a conscious decision to do in life. But you’ll never find me advocating harm or danger to children - in fact, DaddyTimesTwo, I imagine your children would be far safer around some number of “child loving” people, based on the fact that although I may be flawed in your eyes for not “liking” children (which is really “not being comfortable and at ease around them” more than “not liking them”), I also have a serious and total sense of sober duty to keep any person in my charge protected and safe from harm, regardless of the cost to me. Your child, put into my care, would be protected by my own life if necessary. That is - I may not play games with or tell stories to your child on an airplane to occupy them for a few hours, but I would put myself in harm’s way to protect them.
But, you have no way to know that from words on a screen, so the discussion of “what if’s” is of little worth. I think we understand each other, and everything’s fine between us as far as I’m concerned. You?
Sorry, dude, but not even close. Let’s look at the instant replay:
Una wrote: “Now, I don’t like being next to people on the best days, and I don’t like being touched my males on the best days, and I don’t like kids in general…”
To which you responded: “This, however, says a lot about you IMO. Sounds like you have a problem with lots of things, “even on the best of days”. And let me guess, children should be seen and not heard? What a great plan.” (You also bolded “generally don’t like children” when you quoted Una, which was not in the OP, which gave the impression that you were specifically talking about her not liking children as “say[ing] a lot about [her]”. The “not liking strange males groping her” didn’t come up until a page later.)
To which I responded: “I was also curious as to what, exactly, not like children says about a person, other than ‘they don’t like children.’”
See the difference here? You read her post leaped to a (bizarre, IMO) conclusion, and then confronted her with it. I read your post, leapt to a (very likely, IMO) conclusion, but first asked for a clarification. After you clarified, I explained what my initial response to your post had been. I did this in an effort to show you how much distance there was between what you apparently meant to say, and what you actually said. If, like you, I had just run with my gut impression of what you’d said, we wouldn’t be having this civil discussion here. We’d be in an entirely different pit thread: one with your name in the OP.
I had a really great post that got eaten. Really, it was fantastic. Grr. This is a different version.
Una, I did not mean to imply that you deep-fried children and ate them. Promising that would defend children with your life is a far higher standard than I require. In my first reply I chose my words poorly. In retrospect, all I was trying to say is what you describe, that you sounded like you were uncomfortable with children in the best days and that it would thus perhaps color your version of the situation. Mtgman covered this point to my satisfaction. So. You’re OK, I’m OK, and on to…
Miller, I bolded the phrase about children cause she was describing a situation involving children and I thought that that bias might slant the story. I covered that point in the previous paragraph. And I don’t see that you were asking for clarification at all in the “red flag” thing there, seems more like a comment.
But, I don’t care. I don’t like dogs, you don’t care for children. Let’s just hope that we don’t end up neighbors.
He doesn’t like dogs…
::laugh track::
He doesn’t like children…
::louder laugh track::
Tune in this Fall for the most HILARIOUS sitcom EVER:
Those Wacky Neighbors!!!
“Daddy!! There’s doggie poop in my sandbox!”
“MillERRRRR!!!”
::laugh track, applause::
Me, I’m just hearing the theme from The Odd Couple now…but who is Felix?
[sub]I’m so bloody old…[/sub]
Next time you fly: duct tape!
Seriously, why didn’t the flight attendants intervene?
I remember a British Airways flight from Heathrow to Chicago several years ago. Apparently, a group of American high school students were on their way home from what appeared to be their first visit overseas. To say they were obnoxious would be an understatement. Quite a few of us complained to the flight attendants, who spoke with the chaperones and parents with them, to no avail.
It was not a nice flight. However, the arrival made up for it.
Going through Chicago Customs was a breeze. I distinctly recall my brother and I were over the limit with alcohol, but the Customs folks just waved us through, along with practically everyone else, except for the high school troup.
They were directed to the far end of Customs hall. Everyone in the group – including the chaperones and parents with them – were searched with fine tooth combs. Many of the guys were pretty much stripped-searched right then and there for all the world to see.
I don’t think any of them made their connecting flights.
According to a flight attendant we found just outside of Customs hall, the flight crew just could not reason with them. However, the captain made a call to HQ before landing. Apparently, Customs & Immigration did the rest.
Well, that’s this darn medium for ya. Sometimes, in spite of your best efforts, you just can’t get it across the way you could in person.
Hmmm, sorry, I didn’t mean to be sounding as if I were speaking for her, just trying to clarify what a person might mean by not “generally likeing something”. Hence the “likely” qualifier, meaning I’m leaning toward thinking that’s how she meant it.
And as to the “wouldn’t be thrilled to be around them even if they’re well-behaved”. I’d say that’s a fair assessment, at least for me, and some of the other “don’t generally like kids” friends and acquaintances.
Kids are noisy and annoying little critters. It’s not so much that I, (we) don’t “like” them, as that they’re just not our cup of tea. They can be boring (ever have to listen to a 6 year old relay the plot of this “really neat movie” they saw?? :D), and in the BEST behaviour, they can be just annoying.
Are we “wacky”?? I guess to someone besotted with kids and those raising their own football teams, and loving it, we probably seem that way. But really, it’s just a difference in preferences.
Some kids are great, and I can totally relate to. My co-workers “weary of the world” 17 year old is a treasure. (well, he’s 19 now). My kids (of course) were pretty good kids, but even THEY drove me nuts with just plain old “kidness” on a regular basis.
Some people just aren’t cut out for it.
Maaaybe. But, that would be kind of unfairly slanting the situation based on their opinion. Would a dogbite hurt any less if the person who was bitten “didn’t generally like dogs”?
In other words, I don’t think that the event of two kids screaming and bashing the back of ones seat could BE “made worse” based on someone’s prejudiced feelings against kids.
If they’re were banging and screaming, they likely were horribly loud and disruptive, and it was likely VERY annoying. I didn’t get the sense that she was “exaggerating” based on her predisposition to not generally liking kids.
I know you weren’t saying that she was, but just that she might have had her experience “colored” somewhat by her feelings on the subject of kids in the first place. Does that make better sense?
Yup. That happens. Graceful recovery.
No, no, you misunderstand me. The request for clarification was the part where I said “I was also curious as to what, exactly, not like children says about a person, other than ‘they don’t like children.’” The red flag part was where I explained what my initial reaction to your first post had been before you clarified it. It’s not a reflection of how I feel about you now.
And if we end up in an Odd Couple-style sitcom, I call dibbs on the Oscar character.
If I have to be Felix, I’m gonna need some serious acting classes, cause I am a slob.