And I think that deciding that women who choose differently than you do are “incompetent”, “useless”, masochistic, don’t “value” themselves, and would of course choose differently if only they knew better, is pretty indicative of a lack of respect for women. :dubious:
It’s funny, I haven’t seen a single post in this thread that says “What the hell is wrong with you non-heel wearers? Don’t you realize how bad you look? Are you crazy? Lazy? Pinko commie lesbians? CONFORM!!!” Nope, it’s not us heel-wearers who’ve decided that a woman’s value, dignity, and intelligence can be determined by her footwear.
All this about height! I’m exactly average (5"9" for men, unless it’s changed), and I’ve never felt intimidated by someone because they were taller than me. Man or woman. In fact, I’m attracted to women around my own height. Nor do I feel any superiority over shorter men.
Unless we’re talking about getting in a fight. Then a taller but otherwise fit man may present an advantage over me. I haven’t been in a fight for forty years or so.
Why would being taller or higher up in shoes make you feel more confident? I can’t know because I don’t wear heels. Miniskirts, though, sound pretty cool.
Geezuz Krist, we gotta stop. Let’s stop talking like those of us who like heels are cracking our soles in half and binding them in guaze before tucking them into perfect golden lotus satin chinese shoes.
I think that to think the reason women like shoes is because men like women to be unable to do physical labor is just completely underestimating the great strides women have made since the freakin 1800s.
I mean, really? They aren’t sexy because of that nice arch they give the foot that can remind one of a woman with her feet arched in the air while being made love to? Or the way it jutts a woman’s ass out? Or the way it elongates her legs? None of that comes into play? Women have reclaimed their own ‘sexuality’ in such a way that they determine for themselves what they find hot or not hot. What is up with looking down on them for choosing heels, and implying that they are under some kind of male chauvenistic spell from ages ago? What the…?
And quite frankly, I think it is equally insulting to men to imply that they are attracted to women in heels because it cripples her and makes her weak or whatever.
But people do this kind of thing all the time, and it’s not just women. Look at piercings! They’re obviously harm, because you’re poking a hole in yourself, yet both genders are starting to get in on the action. Tattoos! I see more men than women sporting those (at least around here). Skaters in pants that they can’t walk in without holding them up do not look particularly comfortable. People decide for themselves what trade-offs they’re willing to make to look “good,” whatever they define that as. You don’t have to like it, but it’s odd that you seem to think the phenomenon is restricted solely to women.
Besides, and I say this as someone who never wears skirts because I hate them and who only wears heels once or twice a year: high heels do not have to be particularly uncomfortable. You just have to shop around to find a pair that fits you well. Personally, I prefer relatively flat, thick-soled shoes for most things, because they make me taller but don’t add the instability of high heels, but I understand why people wear them. You can get high heels in colors and patterns that I hardly ever see in “normal” shoes. They’re quite cute.
I will say, that it seems to me like low-heeled shoes have advanced quickly in cuteness over the last 5 or 10 years. I spend a lot less time ogling impractical shoes now, since I’m having much better luck scoring, say, a red pair of mary jane flats, than I would’ve a 10 years ago.
Or, maybe those shoes were around all along, and it’s just the advent of the internet that’s been giving me better luck. That’s probably it.
I haven’t stated that the phenomena is restricted solely to women, that’s why I said ‘people’ not ‘women’. In fact I have stated the opposite, that both genders do so, with an addendum that it’s perhaps preferentially observed in women throughout history. Piercings do involve a relatively small amount of initial pain, but comparing the extent of damage done by a small hole in the ear lobe isn’t entirely comparable to the physiological damage of long-term heel use. As for skaters, the distinction I am drawing is based on physical harm, not practicality. People will, as you say, make trade-offs in terms of what they wear to look ‘good’, but that doesn’t mean I don’t find it absurd when they do so, where they cause damage to themselves.
Whether heels are comfortable, with a well designed toe-box, or uncomfortable has some bearing on the amount of damage and pain they cause. But all designs inevitably malform the foot and cause harm. An ideally fitted pair will still do this, given sufficient use. Just because something doesn’t necessarily cause pain, doesn’t mean it isn’t damaging your physiology.
That’s true of eating cheeseburgers, too, but people make those kinds of choices all the time. Social pressure on women to wear high heels appears to be decreasing (I don’t even remember the last time I was in a situation where I’d have been looked down upon for not wearing them, if I’ve ever even been in one), yet some women still choose to do so.
You’re allowed to find it absurd, but I don’t see the point in preaching to people who understand the risks of their behavior (which I would argue are in this case quite mild, as it takes fairly frequent wear to incur permanent, uncorrectable, noticeable damage), and choose to engage in it. People make similar choices that risk their lives, not just their mobility, constantly. I apparently fail to appreciate the difference.
Is it because it’s perceived social pressure? Male domination? What makes it different? (I’m not trying to be a jerk, I actually want to know.)
Seriously, I don’t get the height thing either. I’m 5’3" and petite, so I’ve spent most of my life with everyone else being taller and bigger than me, and I don’t really give a shit. Size does not intimidate me, whatever confidence I might gain from adding a few inches is counterbalanced by the confidence I lose from compromised mobility.
I happen to agree with you on the negative physical effects of heels, but I think you may be missing the point that it doesn’t matter. People who wear heels do so because they enjoy them for whatever reason (confidence, height, or they just like the way they look), and that’s their prerogative, just like it’s my prerogative to chow down on pizza and hot dogs even though I know that the fat and cholesterol is going to catch up to me one of these days. I’m not being subjugated or hoodwinked, and neither are heel-wearers. It’s a perfectly valid personal choice.
I wasn’t trying to preach. I was just explaining why I agree with one of the two points in the OP, that wearing high heels is, in my opinion, odd, and the logic in my doing so. Yes, people endanger their health in all sorts of ways, and as I pointed out earlier so do I. Obviously this makes me a hypocrite to some extent, and some people think this undermines my logic. I don’t.
The point is when I do something medically reckless it is not on the basis of fashion, which is to my mind in no small part based on how other people perceive what you are wearing. Some people have contended that this isn’t the case, that their decision to choose is entirely innate; others have decided that post-apocalypse it doesn’t really matter. I am with the latter group, I wouldn’t wear them with no one else around, and I don’t now. That is where I personally would delineate the difference. I don’t think it’s important enough to physiologically harm myself to the extent that heels can, given frequent use, for the purposes of what other people think of me.
ETA:
Yes it is, I’ve never said it isn’t. It’s just not one that I would choose.
Is it germane that people (women) who actually work on their feet (nurses, food servers, toll takers, hooters girls*, etc) don’t wear high heels at work?
*Never been there, but I assume they don’t look very sexy, being minus high heels and all.
Well, I think it’s one thing to point out that it’s more comfortable to wear flats than heels. But it’s not like all women who do choose to wear heels are destining themselves to a life of deformed feet. People choose what they wear based on situations–I wouldn’t wear the same thing that I’d wear to a party when I’m going to the gym or on a long hike.
I don’t go to Las Vegas, or to Reno. the two times I have, I found some of the stuff okay, but sitting on my butt while gambling to be boring. I did win a little money both times, but not enough to retire. I liked being around the crowds ans all, but I can do that right here. I rather play “whack-a-Mole” at Pier 39.
I rarely go to bars, but the servers there wear flat or low heel shoes.
I guess I go to low-brow retail stores.
Most of the high heel shoes I see at work are kicked off under desks.
I live a sheltered life.
I always love these threads where men tell women what to do. We’re incapable of making good personal decisions on our own, so it’s really lucky for us that so many men are willing to give us instructions about how to manage every little detail of our lives.
So is foot binding a healthy social practice, since women are just trying to look beautiful and confident?
I’m touchy about this. I live in a place that explicitly does value women mainly on looks/helplessness. It’s a place where women put their bust size and skin tone on resumes. Where freshman girls entering college are advised not to choose a career path where they might out-earn a potential husband. A place where my student regularly fall down fainting in class because to weight more than the magic 40 kilos (about 90 lbs.) is pretty much ruining your chances at life. A place where you have to write your husband or father’s name on official documents.
It’s also a place where 90% of women wear heels all of the time.
I suppose a request for photo documentation would be too much.