I do believe that rule cite to be accurate, and it’s probably a good reason why the chip shot onside kick isn’t used often. OTOH, it also relies on the special teams coach for the receiving team making sure that his players know that, if they see a pop-up kick, to signal for a fair catch, but that shouldn’t be a hard bit of coaching.
I was relying on my memory of onside kicks over the years, and watching a few go out of bounds while still in the air. Mea culpa.
They just need to call for a fair catch on every onside kick (once it obviously is). There would be no penalty if the kick bounced, the fair catch just wouldn’t apply. And the fair catch signaler needn’t be the one who catches it (or evem tries). I’ve often seen fair catch signals given only to have the one signalling step out of the way hoping the ball (punt in this case) going into the end zone.
a) For a two-point conversion attempt, what yardline becomes the line of scrimmage? …barring any penalties that would move the ball further from the endzone, that is. And, for that matter, from what yardline is a one-point conversion kicked? (Perhaps, it is the same yardline for either conversion?)
b) I keep failing to note this myself, but does 2nd OR 4th quarter begin with play resuming at the same yardline where play just ended when the clock ran out, only now possession of the ball switches to the once-defending team? Is that correct?
For a two-point conversion attempt, what yardline becomes the line of scrimmage? **
The 2 yard line for a 2 pt. conversion, 15 yard line for a PAT (for a 33 yard kick).
**
Does 2nd OR 4th quarter begin with play resuming at the same yardline where play just ended when the clock ran out, only now possession of the ball switches to the once-defending team?
Possession does not change hands at the start of the 2nd and 4th quarter.
Just to note that the latter is a recent change to the NFL rules.
Prior to 2015, conversions were always tried from the 2-yard-line, regardless of whether they were for one point (via kick) or two points (via a play from scrimmage).
However, PAT kicks had become close to automatic – in 2014, 99.3% of all one-point conversions were successful (1230 attempts, 1222 successes). As the PAT kick had become essentially boring and anti-climactic, the NFL moved the line of scrimmage back to the 15 yard line beginning in 2015.
At the start of the 2nd and 4th quarters, the teams change the direction they’re moving down the field, so as to equalize any benefits one side might have from things like wind direction or the sun being in one team’s eyes. But aside from effectively giving a free timeout, that’s all that happens at those times. If you’re on a drive deep into your opponent’s territory at the end of the first quarter, you’ll still be deep in your opponent’s territory and continuing your drive at the start of the 2nd.
On the other hand, everything (except the score, of course) resets at halftime, and you start over with a new kickoff in the 3rd quarter. So you’d better get done whatever you’re doing before the end of the half.
At the start of the 2nd and 4th quarters, the teams change the direction they’re moving down the field, so as to equalize any benefits one side might have from things like wind direction or the sun being in one team’s eyes. But aside from effectively giving a free timeout, that’s all that happens at those times. If you’re on a drive deep into your opponent’s territory at the end of the first quarter, you’ll still be deep in your opponent’s territory and continuing your drive at the start of the 2nd.
On the other hand, everything (except the score, of course) resets at halftime, and you start over with a new kickoff in the 3rd quarter. So you’d better get done whatever you’re doing before the end of the half.
Note that the touchback rule changed 2 seasons ago. If the kickoff reaches the endzone without being touched by a member of the receiving team, it’s an automatic touchback and the receiving team get the ball at the 25. That’s why you see returners just letting the ball land in the endzone if they don’t think it’s worth returning. It used to be they had to catch it & take a knee to be safe.
Prior to that change the Jets scored a touchdown against the Bills because they made a short kickoff, the ball dribbled into the end zone untouched by the Bills, and a Jet scooped it up and it was counted as a score.
Jets recovered their own accidental onside kick for a touchdown - SBNation.com?
If that happened this year it would have just been a touchback.
In addition to the situations mentioned above, there is also the quarterback slide. A quarterback running with the ball who slides feet first is considered down even if no one touches him. This is done to lower the risk of injury.
One more thing to add to this. The kicking team can recover the ball as soon as is touched by the receiving team, even if it hasn’t gone ten yards yet. So the receiving team might not try to recover it if they don’t think it will go ten yards, because if they try to grab it everyone’s going to dive on it.
This actually happened in the Rams/Cowboys game yesterday. The Rams kicked an onside kick that slowly rolled ten yards. Players from both sides surrounded it but didn’t touch it until it crossed the line.
That’s usually called “giving himself up” when a QB does this. He’s considered down at the point where he begins the slide, no matter where he ends up (so he can’t slide out of bounds to stop the clock) and if he loses the ball in the process it doesn’t matter because he’s already down and the play is dead.
Also, the defense isn’t allowed to make contact, though incidental contact is often unavoidable, especially if the defender is trying to tackle prior to the slide, and if the defender tries to avoid contact it’s usually overlooked.
In the only NFL I ever saw live, the Cardinals kicked off to the Eagles. The Eagles receiver was watching the ball head towards the sideline around the 15 and decided to let it bounce out. A Cardinal player scooped it up and waltzed into the end zone. This happened in Shibe Park. Bonus question: what team was the Cardinals?
The Chicago Cardinals. The game was, I think, in 1948. They moved to St. Louis after the 1959 season
Incidentally, in Canadian football, any punt can be recovered by the kicker, along with anyone behind the kicker or who is passed by the kicker as he runs downfield. As a result, the receiving team cannot lit the ball roll dead, but must field it. I don’t know the history but I conjecture that this must have been once true in American football and the onside kick is just a vestige of the old rule.
This makes me wonder when they put in the rule that the kicking team can’t advance their own kick without it being possessed by the return team first.
Carson Wentz once faked a QB slide while playing against the Redskins in order to fool their defenders into giving up pursuit momentarily on him, which then allowed him to sneak by and continue running for additional yards on them. It caused considerable anger and I don’t know if he’s done it again since.
I guess you didn’t see the Oakland game Sunday.
“Fake” slides are supposed to be officiated as the same as the real thing. But officials are apt to err on the side of not stopping plays.
It’s in the best interests of QBs not to fake anyway. It encourages defenders to take the 15 if fakes are allowed, which defeats the purpose of protecting the QB.
On a kickoff, they can still advance the kick, as it’s a live ball. They just can’t recover it in the end zone now, as it’s a dead ball once it crosses the goal line. And on a punt, a kicking team doesn’t need the other team to possess the ball to recover it, they just need the receiving team to touch it.
I don’t think that this is correct, at least not in the NFL. My understanding has always been that, while the kicking team can recover the ball on a kickoff once it’s gone ten yards, if they do successfully gain possession of the ball, they cannot advance it, and the play is blown dead at that spot.
Thanks. I think I misread his post.