This has fuck-all to do with what jsgoddess said. It’s in many ways opposite to what she said. You’re being an idiot, and you’re being a jerk.
Personal insults are not allowed in this forum, which is something you probably already know by now, so I’m going to give you a warning.
Following up on this, I think by definition, almost any teacher that had a relationship with a student is not going to be emotionally healthy. There may be a few exceptions, such as a 22-year-old new teaching with an 18-year-old student, but mid to late 20s or older with 15- or 16-year-old students just isn’t right.
So most likely they will be playing emotional games, and kids get caught up in those. Of course, 15 and 16 year old kids play emotional games with each other, but its worse with an adult.
The best answer I can give you is that most grown women think it would have been bad for them when they were 16, regardless of what they thought when they were 16. Most grown men still think they would have been OK if this had happened to them when they were 16, in addition to thinking the same when they were 16.
Please don’t think I’m claiming all 16 year old boys would have been fine, or that we should assume any particular boy would have been fine. But in insisting we’re (more than 2/3 of us) all wrong, you’re implicitly saying that 1: men are dumber than women, and 2: a minority of men and a majority of women know better what all men would have experienced than a majority of men would.
Option 3: Men are subject to such intense pressure and expectations regarding their sexuality that to discuss turning down sex or having an unpleasant sexual experience, even in the hypothetical, is something many men aren’t going to do, either because they don’t want to admit something that could be interprested as sexual “weakness” in front of others or because they’ve internalized this concept of manhood.
We’ve seen in this very thread people talking about feeling traumatized by not having sex when they feel like they should be, and about how having sex-- almost regardless of circumstances-- would have a massive effect on their ego. IMHO, that points to some mighty strong expectations, which are unlikely to be compatable with frank discussion.
Women do it as well, but in the opposite. I just had a discussion with some ladies that other day who were going to great lengths to outcompete each other with tales of how they don’t enjoy one-night stands. It was kind of ridiculous, people saying stuff like “Well, I went home with a super hot guy and we had a great time and it was kind of amazing. I mean really good! But, uh, I didn’t enjoy it one bit. Girls need to feel loved to enjoy sex, ladies amirite?” One women mentioned she found casual sex pleasurable, she was met with clear disapproval.
When I used to live in bars, there were plenty of women who clearly wanted to have NSA fun for the night.
One time I was with a girlfriend and her friend had met a guy she wanted to hook up with for the night. My girlfriend was really trying to get her to not go back to the guy’s hotel, but she just wanted to have fun.
I think people overgeneralize these things.
Oh, I’d definitely get my ass kicked in the hypothetical fight. Still voting yes on the hypothetical three-way with two hot teachers.
Are you saying that in my other thread most of the guys in there are lying to keep up appearances? That doesn’t make sense. If guys in that thread felt compelled to lie, they just wouldn’t participate in that thread at all. It not like anyone was holding a gun to their head.
Nevermind the fact that again, you’re just invalidating they way that most guys feel on the matter. You’re implying that we’re intentionally lying or we’re too stupid to know any better.
I don’t insist you’re wrong. I suggest that some in the group are probably right and some are probably wrong, and the same is true of the group who thinks they would be harmed.
Yeah, I don’t think you and I are disagreeing. At most we see different shades of gray.
Of it were a thread full of women taking about casual sex, would you be shocked of some of the conversation was shaded by social and internalized expectations?
You’re aware that that’s not in any way a meaningful cite, right?
No, I’m not implying either of those things. I’m saying that this kind of testimony is completely meaningless. “I’ve never experienced X, but here’s how I’d react to it,” isn’t data, it’s fantasy. Show me a study (not an Internet poll) examining the effects of age-inappropriate sexual encounters on teenage boys that shows that there’s a difference in how it affects them, versus how it affects girls. Macho posturing about how into it you, personally, would have been had it happened to you thirty years ago does not impress.
What is this “Internet Poll” to which you refer? Surely it could not be our own dear Shakes’ poll, could it? Why, of course not, for that thread includes a link (that one assumes you would have read) to a literature survey in which such studies were discussed.
Nope, didn’t bother to read that thread, just looked at the poll results. Obviously, a mistake on my part, because I missed the cite that completely supports what I’ve been saying all along. Thanks for pointing it out for me.
I’m also not even convinced by the mention in the study that those males have, for instance, slightly elevated risks to have alcohol problems and such. There isn’t necessarily a causation, here. It might be that young guys who engage in relationships with older women are more hedonistic, more willing to take risks, and so on…resulting in them being more likely to both have sex with older women and drink too much. I don’t think a “slightly elevated risk” of something this is very likely to be related to personality traits is meaningful.
So, I would guess this thread rather convinced me that men who have underage sex with older women are very unlikely to ever perceive it as a negative experience. My cautious comment in the poll was probably unwarranted.
Or maybe teen males are wiser than we give them credit for, and likely to avoid such situations if they’re likely to be harmed by them. Which could be possible. I mentioned in the poll that I wasn’t convinced I would have kept a good memory of such a situation, but at the same time never had any kind of interest in female teachers, regardless how hot. So, it might not be random.
Not that I’m not convinced, either, that girls are more likely to be harmed than boys. Some in this thread suspect that boys are more likely to deny adverse effects because social pressure encourages them to, but it might be too that girls are more likely to falsely attribute issues to such events because social pressure encourages them to.
Generally speaking, I believe that the importance of sex is vastly overblown in our societies, both negatively and positively. As someone wrote here on in the other thread, sex is just sex. It has no objective reasons to mess up people more than other kind of experiences. You had sex, it wasn’t any good, your partner was a dick, so what? IMO it should belong to the same category as “you went to play golf, you hated it, your golf partner was a dick”. Only serious concerns should be pregnancy and STD.
I wish we would downplay the whole thing and stop telling people that they life might be over because they had sex at 16. Especially when they’re telling you that they weren’t harmed, or don’t think they would have been. I think that it’s showing we have a big issue when people are so convinced that sex is harmful that they try to convince other people they should have been or would have been harmed. Frankly, even though it’s coming from the other side of the aisle, it’s an attitude worryingly similar to that of the religious right.
Love issues have much more impact, but even though it’s typically tied, it’s not the same thing at all. Note that someone with a broken heart doesn’t typically lament mostly (or at all) about sex.
It’s only anecdotal evidence, but I posted above, I know a lot of screwed up people including those who have really unhealthy views of sex and relationships. This included both men and women.
As I posted, I don’t think that having a Penthouse Forum style affair where a super hot teacher invites the jock to her house and screws him silly, says thanks and sends him on his way, is in anyway going to mess him up. At all. For 99% of guys.
I think that same percentage for girls of the same age is less, though. How much less? I don’t know, but I’m sure that a significant percentage of teenage girls are not going to simply accept an invitation to come over for a no-strings-attached, 30-minute romp, where a much higher percentage of teenage boys would.
The problem is when it gets to be an emotional relationship, and by nature pretty much any 25-year-old who is getting their emotional needs met by the average teenager isn’t normal and is much more likely to play head games. For troubled teenagers, having a relationship with a troubled adult can be incredibly bad and can contribute to the already existing issues.
Now it says the boy regrets bragging, and feels bad for the two teachers.
The arrest report also was released, not to mention Shelley Dufresne’s husband’s identity. Really the guy was already humiliated and now his face is put out. As for the boy only his racial/ethnic identity is listed, White of Hispanic background.