Two Theological Questions

[Whack-a-Mole]

@CurtC

That’s like saying there is considerable uncertainty whether crop circles are really formed by alien spaceships. Among rational people, there’s no uncertainty about either.

I pulled my punch on that one because I did not want to get embroiled in a debate about the Shroud’s claims here.

And technically there is still debate over it all so I was not inaccurate.

[ITR_champion]

@viccums

1. Theoretically it is possible to obtain a sample of Christs DNA from the Shroud of Turin. If we cloned it we could raise a bunch of carbon copies of Jesus. Would they be Divine?

One cannot make “carbon copies” of Jesus or of anyone else. Two persons that share the same DNA are not copies of each other. The spiritual life of Jesus was determined by the choices he made. (As indeed everyone chooses the direction of their spiritual life.)

2. In The Di Vinci Code it is suggested that Jesus had children with Mary Magdelene, the descendents of whom live among us today. Lets combine this with the “Rosemarys Baby” thesis and assume a woman had children with the devil, the descendants of whom live among us. If a man from one group married a woman from the other they could have a child that was half Divine and half Satanic. That would be the ultimate in Manecheism, wouldn’t it?

I personally don’t believe that such a thing is possible. But even if a woman had children with the Devil, those children would control make their own decisions, and hence we don’t know whether they’d be Satanic, Divine, or miscellaneous other.

Also, the Manecheean phillosophy of dualism, as I understand it, had the universe and cosmos as a whole divided between equally powerful forces of good and evil, not individuals.

[Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension]

@Lobohan

In two hundred years the next in the line, Elijah Cheng will reveal to us God’s true vision for the world.

All hail Elijah Cheng.

Hey, you’re doing it wrong. Heretic!

[grabs spear]

[chacoguy]

@Half Man Half Wit

So, does that mean I’ll never get my clone-army of Super Jesuses (Jesi?)? Bummer.
Though I have to admit I could never quite figure out how to use their abilities best in combat… I don’t think there’s a huge need for foot soldiers in naval warfare, but I guess they could just keep resurrecting each other, or alternatively, if they’re all taken out, you’d just have to wait three days, and presto! New army!
Wouldn’t have to worry much about supplies, either…

Dang it! :smack:

Ya beat me to it!

I think my buzzers broken…

[Lobohan]

@Attack from the 3rd dimension

All hail Elijah Cheng.

Hey, you’re doing it wrong. Heretic!

[grabs spear]

Put down the spear my child, all the sons of Cheng are brothers in my eyes. [Adjusts flashing neon Yarmulke with deely-boppers]

[viccums]

@ITR champion

One cannot make “carbon copies” of Jesus or of anyone else. Two persons that share the same DNA are not copies of each other. The spiritual life of Jesus was determined by the choices he made. (As indeed everyone chooses the direction of their spiritual life.)
I personally don’t believe that such a thing is possible. But even if a woman had children with the Devil, those children would control make their own decisions, and hence we don’t know whether they’d be Satanic, Divine, or miscellaneous other.

Also, the Manecheean phillosophy of dualism, as I understand it, had the universe and cosmos as a whole divided between equally powerful forces of good and evil, not individuals.

So Jesus wasn’t divine until he had grown up a little and had a chance to make some choices? You should start a new religion.

Manacheans believe there is a god of good and a god of evil. Here we have good and evil combined in one being. Much more economical.

[kaylasdad99]

Welcome to the SDMB, viccums.

Manichean.

Or, Manichaean.

[jackdavinci]

1. Speaking hypothetically (in the same mindset as The Enterprise vs Star Destroyer debate)… Probably it would just be Jesus’ twin brother. I’m thinking Jesus was only special because of his special soul/spirit and not his body. Although I guess people think his body was special too since his blood spurt made that holy grail thing all magical. But was it intrinsically divine through genetics or were his molecules just blessed because they were in the presence of his spirit? In which case mere copies of his genetic code would not be as blessed. On the the other hand, if God and not Joseph really did knock up Mary, maybe his genes were special. Maybe they gave him special divine cells or a super duper pineal gland that could suck in the cosmic ether like a vacuum, in which case twin Jesus would have the same capacity if not the know how to use it. On the other thing, it may all be up to God’s grace. Of course were this to actually happen, it would create many new denominations who would argue the minutae of possible answers, unless God showed up and cleared things up for good and someone caught it on their camera phone.

2. Yep.

[Fear_Itself]

@Whack-a-Mole

1)Also, there is debate if the blood on the Shroud is even blood at all (as opposed to some pigment). Given that they argue over this I think it is safe to say, even if it is blood, any DNA it possessed as long since disappeared.

If they can sequence DNA from a 50,000 year-old Neanderthal sample, I think an 800 year old sample would be doable. If it is blood. Big IF.

[ITR_champion]

@viccums

Manacheans believe there is a god of good and a god of evil. Here we have good and evil combined in one being.

If so, then, that would be something totally different from what the Manichees believed in.

[clairobscur]

@viccums

If a man from one group married a woman from the other they could have a child that was half Divine and half Satanic.

50% divine and 50% satanic? Looks like a regular human being to me…

[Moonchild]

Funniest. Thread. Evar. (IMHO)

[nd_n8]

I don’t know that I’ve ever heard in any scripture, tradition or apocryphic reference about Jesus being the decendant of Mary. Other than being the vessel I don’t think the immaculate conception worked that way. Thus the DNA of Jesus would be original and He would have been only the second person to have that sequence (the first being Adam - Eve by extention given that her DNA was from his bone marrow but obviously altered in at least enough ways to render a female).

While Jesus was divine and without sin, Adam was neither. Therefore the DNA clone of Jesus would not necessarily be divine.