Sam Stone,
What exactly are you saying: that Arab bigtory against Jews justifies bigotry against Arabs and Muslims? That’s pure nonsense.
“The argument that Arabs are just addressing legitimate grievances doesn’t hold water, unless you consider one of those grievances to be that Israelis have the audacity of existing in their proximity”
Well like I said the whole Arab world signed onto the Saudi Peace Plan a while back which involves a two-state solution based on 1967 borders.
Oh and in case it wasn’t clear I was responding to Anahita’s post quoting Blown and Injected. His statements are indeed bigoted as are those of many supporters of Israel, but of course not all of them just as all Arab critics of Israel aren’t bigots either.
Touche. :smack:
Great point, thanks!
Thiis is sort of a hijack, but it may bear some similarities to the situation in the Middle East, so I’m (with strong reservations) putting it here, anyway.
I note that Anahita’s location line says, “France, soon to be Galway.” Now I realize I don’t watch the news on television nearly enough, and I haven’t been picking up the paper this week, but is there really going to be an annexation of France by Galway? I wonder if the French are going to get all huffy about that and turn Western Europe into the same kind of political hot-spot the Middle East is.*
*[sub]Note to the literal-minded: The above was a stupid joke; the poster makes no warranties or claims that it is funny in any objective sense, or that any reader other than the poster will find it funny. The poster is aware that Anahita’s location line merely signifies an impending change of address. Expressions of amusement will be appreciated. Flames will not.[/sub]
>>So, who is going to be the first to call him racist?
It is my right to be so and does not mean that I am wrong.
My belief is only reinforced by the ACTIONS of those that I bicthed about.
I can dislike somebody and not want to kill them. And I have no sympathy for somebody that gets their ass kicked provided that that person through the first punch.
BTW, I am not a fool. I know that not all Arabs/Muslims are like that. Especially in the US, where they have more freedom to practice their form of religion and better their lives.
Your conceit sickens me.
I do not believe that the US should continue their current level of military aid to Israel. I cannot see the justification, and it certainly does not help peace negotiations when the mediator is supplying something on the order of $4 billion dollars of military aid annually to one of the aggreived parties. It also does not do anything good for the perception of the US on the ‘Arab street’ when Al-Jazeera is displaying footage of American supplied helicopters being used by Israel to attack palestinian targets. Israel hardly needs any help in defending itself from neighbours. It already has a nuclear deterrent of something like 200 nuclear weapons.
-Oli
I don’t think that the United States should ever turn it’s back on Israel because of Genesis 12:1-3
Now the Lord has said ujto Abram (who became Abraham and fathered the Isrealites); Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee.
And I will make of thee a great nation, and will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing.
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
Surely you are not seerious! A secular nation should NOT make political policy - particularly policy with such far reaching ramifications - upon the basis of religious dogma written 4000 odd years ago!
Ditto.
And your ignorance (B&I’s) appals me.
Possessing nuclear weapons does not make Israel secure from hostile acts by its neighbors, unless you’re suggesting Israel respond to conventional attacks by going nuclear.
Israel’s nuclear arsenal acts as a deterrent only to nuclear or overwhelming conventional assault by one or more Arab nations.
Ditto.
And your ignorance (B&I’s) appals me.
So!
Correct me then.
If you had a leg to stand on, you probably would have cited all the oppression and death that the US people bring on their Arab neighbors.
The neighbors I’m talking about go to the same university as any other citizen or visitor, have good jobs, live in $500K homes, drive nice cars…
Also, Anahita with over 800 posts, and istara with over 1000 posts should know what the Great Debates if for. I made no personal attack on either of you. A debate at least attempts to further knowledge.
I’m sure we can add lots to this list/test
Let’s pause a moment and take the following test…
In 1972, 11 Israeli athletes were killed at the Munich
Olympics by:
(a) Grandma Moses;
(b) The night cleaning crew at Rockefeller Center;
© Invaders from Mars; or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40.
In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
(a) Norwegians from the Lichen Herbarium of the
University of Oslo;
(b) Elvis;
© A tour bus full of 80-year-old women; or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40.
In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown
up by:
(a) A pizza delivery boy;
(b) Crazed feminists complaining that having to throw
a grenade beyond
its own burst radius in basic training was an unfair
and sexist job
requirement;
© Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day; or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40.
In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed
by:
(a) Luca Brazzi, for not being given a part in
“Godfather 2”;
(b) The Tooth Fairy;
© Butch and Sundance, who had a few sticks of
dynamite left over from
their train mission; or,
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40.
In 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed by:
(a) The entire cast of “Cats”;
(b) Martha Stewart;
© Cheese-crazed tourists from Wisconsin; or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40.
In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were
bombed by:
(a) Mr. Rogers;
(b) Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill’s
women problems;
© The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next
villain:
“Mustapha the Merciless”; or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40.
On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed
by:
(a) Bugs Bunny, Wil E. Coyote, Daffy Duck, and Elmer
Fudd.
(b) Some Florida senior citizens who couldn’t read the
ballot, but
voted
anyway. © Barney; or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40.
Hmmm…nope, there is no pattern here.
The point I took exception to was:
which is a pile of pimply shite.
How many US companies allow Muslim employees to work Ramadan hours for a month every year?
How many provide prayer rooms to enable the more devout to pray five times a day?
How many supermarkets section off the pork and “haram” products?
And also: how many Arabs/Muslims (not that they’re the same thing of course) got beaten up, attacked, vilified in Muslim or Arab countries after 11 September?
How many of them face prejudice for being Muslim in Muslim and Arab countries (shia/sunni issues apart)?
How many Arabs/Muslims face prejudice and difficulty when landing in airports in Arab/Muslim countries just for being “of Middle Eastern appearance”?
Don’t give me any crap about the US being some wonderful Muslim-religious-freedom-zone because it isn’t. Socially or politically. Some Arabs and some Muslims may get a better deal there than in a country like Iraq under the current regime. But no more than any other people of any race or religion from any exceptionally strife-riven country.
Wrong again. I said that because it was only a matter of time before somebody started picking on execptions to the general rule. And you just did.
If an American organization fired somebody for practicing their religion, the law suits would fly. American companies typically have the same rules regarding holidays that apply to all. I don’t know what Ramadan hours are (I don’t know much about my own religion either - had to say that before you accused me of some crap; you see, IMO it is all mythological superstition anyway) but if you are asking if a company lets some people off for a month, I’ll bet some do just that, but it does not seem reasonable in the US. We just made it allowable for one to take off, without pay, to raise a new born - we are business first here.
Special rooms!?!? nobody gets that, but again, the way some companies are in the US, like IBM, would probably make a SPECIAL exception for somebody that made a stink about it. Religious ceromony is not the company business, it is your own personal business and not the responsibility of your employer.
The Giant food store near me has special areas for such occasions.
And also: how many Arabs/Muslims (not that they’re the same thing of course) got beaten up, attacked, vilified in Muslim or Arab countries after 11 September?
How many of them face prejudice for being Muslim in Muslim and Arab countries (shia/sunni issues apart)?
How many Arabs/Muslims face prejudice and difficulty when landing in airports in Arab/Muslim countries just for being “of Middle Eastern appearance”?
Don’t give me any crap about the US being some wonderful Muslim-religious-freedom-zone because it isn’t. Socially or politically. Some Arabs and some Muslims may get a better deal there than in a country like Iraq under the current regime. But no more than any other people of any race or religion from any exceptionally strife-riven country.
Give me a break. You need to spend some time here. Yeah there were some jackasses that acted up with anybody that had a Middle Eastern appearance, but many of that type would give any white person trouble for no good reason. Again that is the exception - you know the .05 that ya through out on both ends of the curve - but you seem to want to focus on that part.
BTW, the “test” was making fun of how silly we are to NOT focus more on (profiling).
Well that’s where you’re wrong, because to a devout Muslim, islam is an integral part of their lives - private and working - and they would not be able to work for a company that didn’t provide a praying area.
I’m not trying to claim the US is a huge zone of anti-Muslim prejudice, but to try to claim Muslims are freer to practise their religion in the US (or any other non-Muslim country) compared to in their own, Muslim country, is, yes, a sack of pimply shite.
“should the United States continue to support Israel?”
Yes
Well obviously. Of course Muslims are freer to practice Islam in Muslim countries than in the US. But I’m sure you know the penalty in Saudi Arabia for a Muslim who practices Christianity. The point being that, generally speaking, non-Muslims are not even remotely as free to practice their respective religions in Muslim countries as Muslims are to practice Islam in the US. And overall, Muslims enjoy greater freedom in the US, and other Western countries, than in Muslim countries. For instance, who has more power to propose legislation - a Muslim member of the Israeli Knesset, or a Muslim member of the UAE Majlis?
Additionally, I would argue that a lack of companies willing to give Muslims extra time off for Ramadan does not constitute a lack of freedom. A job is a contract between employer and employee, and if the terms are not mutually agreeable to both parties, then the contract does not have to exist. If an employer didn’t want to change my schedule so I could be home for Shabbat on Friday night, I would not consider that oppression, and it doesn’t seem that most people would.
As soon as you carefully select only the events which prove your point, there’s necessarily a pattern…
If you want to find a pattern, choose a specific period, and list all the terrorist attacks which occured in the world during this period. Then if there’s still a pattern, you’ll have a point.
Thank you. That was all my point was. B&J’s assertion that they were freer to do so in the US was of course - for the third time - a pile of pimply shite.