Ugh. A friend is assuming I will lie for him.

In My Humble Opinion
1

Right off the bat, I’ll tell you I’m no Mother Theresa. I’ve made morally and ethically challenged decisions before. We all have.

I just got a call from a good friend of mine I’ve known for years. I’m at work so I didn’t really have time to raise objections. The call basically went like this:

Me: Hello?

Him: Hey, bud. How are you?

Me: Good man, you?

Him: Good. I just wanted to let you know that I used you reference (first red flag). We were coworkers (second red flag). We worked at 84 Lumber together, so if you get a call, just tell them I was a good worker, that’s all (huge, glaring, all-hands-on-deck red flag).

Me: Uhhh… well, that’s fine, I guess… look, I’m at work and I wanted to call you this afternoon anyway, so can I talk to you about it then?

Him: Sure, bud. Talk to you then.

First, general etiquette is to ask someone if they can use you as a reference first. Second, we’ve never worked together. I’ve never worked for 84 Lumber or any lumber company for that matter, and he’s never once mentioned to me he worked for them either.

I’m not morally outraged at the prospect of telling a little lie to help an old friend out, especially since he was unfairly fired from his old, well-paying job for filing a workers’ comp claim. He also took me and my two cats into his home temporarily while I was looking for a place. He’s a very generous guy, and has certainly helped me out in the past. But the sheer amount of presumption really got my goat.

How do I tell him that what he did was not okay without losing the friendship? I can already see him getting upset with, “after all I’ve done for you!” He has a point, and he never did those things with expectation of anything in return (at least, not to my knowledge).

Should I let it go? What say you?

2

If you’re okay with the prevarication, I would tell him that he should have talked to you first before he signed you up to lie for him, that’s what friends do.

If you’re not okay with the lying, then you better tell him ASAP, that he should have talked to you first, and that when these people call, you’ll be happy to tell them that you think the guy is a stand up guy and a hard worker, but there must have been some misunderstanding, as you have never worked at the lumber place before.

3

Oh, sticky situation. You might tell him you are uncomfortable with telling an outright lie, but that you’d be fine with a good reference. I don’t know how he’d take it, but yeah, I’d be like you.

Good luck. Hope it doesn’t cost a friendship. Relationships can be a PITA.

4

My ethics are definitely not angelic, and I’m not suggesting that this is the most moral thing to do, just what I would do. I’d tell the friend that I would lie for them this time, but I do not appreciate being told after-the-fact and don’t like the idea of outright lying on a reference call (bullshiting about what a fantastic co-worker someone was given that they really were a co-worker is another matter - I’ve done that more than once:D). I’d ask them to please don’t do that again.

5

When I was 18 (1976) I applied for my first credit card. I had a minimum wage job at the time, and used it as a reference. I was in my bosses office specifically to talk with her about this. Before I had a chance, the phone rang.

She took the call and I heard her side of the conversation. “Yes…uhhuh…correct…yes”.

She hung up and glared at me. “Since when do you make more than me?”

I got the card.

6

I wouldn’t do it, but I’d offer to cover by saying there must have been a mix up with the phone number or something.

What’s wrong with this guy that he can’t get a single real reference?

7

I don’t have advice. Just sympathy. A friend recently hit me up with a similar request - he’s apartment hunting. “If you get a call I work with you part time” (he doesn’t) and I have my own consulting business (he doesn’t). If it comes up I’m a very light smoker (one pack a day is light, really?) But don’t say I smoke unless they ask. (They’re gonna figure it out as soon as they meet you.)

I astounded my usually quite wimpy self by telling him I wasn’t comfortable lying. He responded “Oh, those were just suggestions. I’d never ask you to lie.” (Lie!)

Relationships can indeed be a PITA.

I understand that you feel like you owe him for taking him in. But, you have to do what you can live with.

8

What your friend did was over the line. If he wants you to lie for him, the least he should have done was ask you if you were willing first. Hell, even if he wasn’t asking you to lie and was going to use you as a reference, he should have asked you. You should at least tell him that you’re upset about that.

Now as for whether you lie for him or not, that’s up to you. Personally, I’d try to convince him it was a bad idea. In most places, if they find out you lied on your application, it’s generally grounds for immediate termination. Besides, if he needs a reference, why couldn’t he just use you as his friend without having you lie about having worked with him.

Either way, the “after all I’ve done for you” argument is tacitly stupid. Friends should be willing to do things for their friends and, when it comes up, be willing to return the favor. But following that not only implies that you keep score in the friendship, which I think is inherently bad all by itself, but that if one does enough for the other then the other is somehow obligated into doing something they don’t want to do. Maybe here it’s lying, but these sorts of things can easily lead into much worse ground morally. If he let you stay at his house longer, say 6 months or a year, could he use that as reason why you should help him commit insurance fraud?

That is, that sort of situation, that he didn’t even ask and just expects you to do something that is, at best, questionable in its morality, to me shows that it might not be as good of a friendship as you thought it was.

9

I had a similar-but-different situation arise many years ago. A friend I worked with had only been married a short time but was having an affair with her previous boyfriend.

One Sunday afternoon, my phone rang. It was her husband.

Me: Hello?

Him: Hi Anna ! I guess you guys got back earlier than you thought, huh? Could I talk to Laura?

Me: silence Um… got back from where?

Him: 6 Flags. Laura said you and here were going to 6 Flags…

Me: silence Um… no, I haven’t seen her since work Friday night…

Him: silence
So… yeah. That was awkward. No head’s up, no warning.

That marriage didn’t last long.

10

NM

11

I think this may be my best course of action. I’ll tell him I’ll do it this one time, but in the future, he needs to ask me first.

Ouch, that’s ugly. What happened the next time you saw your “friend”? Did you confront her? Did she act like nothing happened? Curious! I imagine you both aren’t still speaking…?

12

This is precisely what I would do, if it were me. Whether I’d do it in the future or not would depend very strongly on the situation.

13

I will not lie for someone. I might tell less than I know, or tell only the good parts version, but I flat-out will not lie. And anyone who knows me well enough to consider me a friend ought to know that.

The not asking first isn’t as big a deal to me. If a friend used me as an honest reference, I wouldn’t mind all that much, even if the first I heard of it was the new employer calling me. In that case, I’d say as much good about the person as I honestly could. Next time I talked with the friend, I’d say “Hey, you should have warned me to expect that call”, but that’d be the end of it.

14

This is pretty much what I do.

Like you, I’ve got good friends who’ve gone above and beyond to bail me out and hold me up when the going got sticky… but I’d expect at least a courtesy call BEFORE I was expected to do something like this.

15

To me, it would be one thing if you two had actually worked together, and he was asking you for a recommendation that made him seem like a better worker than he really was. There, you’re giving an opinion, and you’re also giving the recruiter enough context to consider whether to filter your opinion through the fact of your friendship with the guy. But saying that you worked someplace where you really didn’t strikes me as a whole different level of lying.

16

If (a) this was a good friend and (b) he was in fact unfairly fired for a worker’s comp claim, I’d happily provide a fake reference for him without even thinking about it. I’d view it as providing the reference his old employer would be providing if they weren’t total dickbags. Lying to correct an injustice is perfectly fine with me.

Now, the ethical problem for me would come in knowing whether (b) was actually true. Just like with relationship breakups, layoffs often have very different spins depending on who you talk to. Maybe your friend was fired when it turned out some of the details surrounding his workman’s comp claim were a bit sketchy, maybe he got addicted to painkillers while recovering from his injury and it caused problems with his work, etc. In these situations, most people will tell the story that casts them in the more favorable light just to save face.

That would be my main dilemma. But if I believe his version of events, no problem at all. That’s what friends are for.

17

I wouldn’t have a problem pretending to be a work reference for a good friend personally, especially in the current economy and given the way that employers are taking advantage of their employees right now. But I would still be upset that he didn’t ask me about it first. So do it if you don’t mind doing it, but tell him he has to ask you about it first in the future. For a lumber job? No biggie. For a managerial job? Bigger problem.

Also, if was really unfairly fired, he should get an attorney. There ARE fair ways to fire someone after a work comp claim, though, and he might do better to look into the situation with an attorney and figure out whether his firing was actually unfair or not. If he was unable to perform his original job duties anymore and they weren’t able to accommodate his new restrictions, it would be alright to let him go. They’re not obligated to create a new job for him if it would be an undue hardship to do so. But if they fired him as retaliation for filing a claim, that IS illegal.

18

Seems like the guy already knew… because why would he call you?

19

Wow. Your friend was there for you, yet here you are debating whether or not you should be there for him. And not even because it would inconvenience you, but because of some nebulous fucking “Moral” dilemma.

Not only would I give my mate a reference, by the time I am done he will have invented the fucking light bulb.

20

This. If you wouldn’t lie for a friend in these circumstances, you’re not a good friend.