I’m certainly not saying people should be sent off for a little mutual shirt pulling or anything. I’m not advocating an extreme change, just somewhat less leniency. There’s too much rule breaking allowed in the name of having a “flowing” game or whatever. It’s rather annoying when one sees, say, Vidic use a player as a springboard to score a goal. It happens pretty regularly. Bizarrely, refs are happy to call a foul for a little shirt pulling in the area even when no goal results. It’s like the goal makes them less likely to call a foul, it should be the other way round! There are numerous such quirks that are especially prevalent in the EPL that annoy me.
Sure. That’s what the yellow card is for. You tell the ref to fuck off, you get warned with a yellow. Simple, no? The player stays on the pitch, and learns that such behaviour has consequences.
Serial offenders like Wayne and Stevie G should get straight reds, though. Players should not be allowed to abuse referees, and some players simply do not get it, and won’t until they start getting sent off for it.
Sure, and I’m saying the EPL’s standard is too lenient, and results in absurdities. Like Wayne Rooney telling the ref to fuck off on live television after scything a player down and not even getting an official (a yellow) warning. I don’t mind if they’re more lenient than other leagues, to allow a more physical game to flow. They’re just too lenient, is all.
I’m not sure where I said it was a more negative league, I don’t think it is generally (compared to Serie A or Ligue 1 anyway), though I think it’s been getting more and more so. Perhaps just an aberration though, I hope so. As for being punished over nothing, I’d honestly prefer some players get yellows for doing nothing than serial cheats like Gerrard or Mascherano (or RVP or Alves from my preferred teams, to be fair) continuing their ways. Obviously you want a balance, but I don’t like cheats prospering, even if the cost is some players being unjustly punished. I really wish football would grow up and use video evidence when needed, though, which would eliminate most of these issues (it could just use it for Big Decisions, red cards, penalties etc, and perhaps most importantly could ban players post match for things like diving).
It’s not that I want to see “beautiful” games per se, it’s an extreme dislike for dirty games. Real Madrid taking turns kicking Messi pissed me off, Stoke playing the most ugly “football”(more like headball) imaginable against Citeh didn’t, though Delap being a thug did.
Re draws & defensive play, I thought I’d said I don’t mind them. If two teams try to win a game and end it 2-2, that’s cool. I just want teams to try to win, that’s it. I don’t mind situational defensive play (being ahead being the obvious case), I dislike playing for 0-0 from the off.
Of course. I don’t begrudge a Tony Pulis and his players just trying to stay up (though I don’t think their methods are very effective), that’s why you try to nudge the rules around to make the most effective method also the best for the viewer.
I didn’t say physical = violence…
Not sure how one could prove my impression that there’s more violence in the EPL. I don’t just mean bone crushing stuff, but general crashing of bodies, heads getting whacked etc. The sort of thing that’s routine in American Football
On a more fun note (Chelsea’s woes), anyone else surprised how spineless they’ve become? Aside from the comical refereeing performance, their performances against both 'pool and United were absolutely horrific. I still suspect Malouda is actually an imposter who kidnapped a real footballer. Ballack doesn’t look much more interested. Getting rid of Deco looks like the best decision Barcelona made for a long time. And Drogba so obviously wants out it’s painful. Kalou is…mediocre.
So given that their entire front line is just bloody awful, anyone think the team that should really be worried about their CL place is actually Chelsea? Especially given that Arsenal should be getting a few players back from injury soon, and have been on a pretty decent run anyway.
Well if your impression is that general crashing of bodies is violence, then you completely lose me again. That’s a physical game, not a violent one. The violence I see is more the cynical Italian/Spanish tackling which is designed to injure.
I don’t see the problem with Rooney or anyone else saying “Oh, fuck off, ref!”, immediately after a decision. If after a verbal caution he then continues to call the ref a blind bastard, fair enough, but not just for swearing at a ref in the heat of the moment.
rough or injurious physical force, action, or treatment: to die by violence.
(others pretty unrelated)
It seems rather swift, intense, rough, and often injurious. So yeah, violence. “Physical” to me is just when players tussle for the ball, the kind of thing the likes of Drogba (well, in the past) & Vidic get paid for.
Obviously the cynical tackling designed to injure is also violent, though I can’t fathom why you refer to it as “Italian/Spanish”.
It wasn’t after a decision, it was after a non-decision. Well, a free kick I guess. For a yellow card offense, but anyway. He walked away throwing his hand up and shouted fuck off. Personally I think that’s petulant and childish and shouldn’t be allowed, but regardless of my opinion, the rules are very clear that it should be punished. It usually is. Arjen Robben absolutely deserved his second yellow for telling a ref to fuck off for not giving Madrid a penalty.
If you sent off every player who used “offensive, abusive or insulting language”, or cautioned every player who dissents by word or action with the decision of the referee (the actual language from Law XII), you’d end up with almost no one on the pitch in an EPL game, or any other game among adults. So, once again, you have to decide what reaches the point that the behavior has to be cautioned, or what reaches the point the player cannot be allowed to continue the game.
A referee in a professional game has to develop a thick skin. I’ve officiated professional games, so I can say this with certainty. Would I have at least cautioned Wayne Rooney for that situation? Possibly, indeed, my instinct is to say I would have, and it was the same feeling I had at the time I was watching the game. But who is to say that the referee wasn’t right? After all, I didn’t see Rooney do that again that game, so maybe the referee handled the situation just fine.
So, you can’t just say, “he used foul language, he should have been sent off.” It just doesn’t work that way, and, I’ll wager, hasn’t for at least 40 years.
If you resort to a dictionary definition of physical, well, it shows we are on different pages. Football fans know what physical play is when they see it (like porn) and they know what violent play is when they see it. And the two ain’t the same thing.
Why do I call the cynical/violent/deliberately attempting to injure play Spanish/Italian? Because I saw that kind of tacking way more often in the Spanish/Italian leagues than in the British Leagues. Willy Young on Paul Allen in the 1980 Cup Final notwithstanding.
So the transfer window shuts until the summer and who did City get?
Bellamy, Given and De-Jong, total outlay £47M, more than any other team in any of the 4 divisions.
Hardly earth shattering is it?
Were thwarted in their attempts to sign Kaka and Roque Sante Cruz and any other player of quality they may have had their eyes on.
Then what do they do?
Loan Jo to Everton. ::smack::
A player that cost £18M is “LOANED” to one of City’s rivals
Still there’s always the summer window in which to renew attempts, maybe that time they’ll have more success.
In other news:
The mighty Rochdale win yet again (away) and are now in 4th position just 1 point behind Bury but Dale have a game in hand, win that and they’re in the automatic promo spot.
I told you upthread they were going up this year and I have my money on 'em.
R.I.P. Birchie. You were never great, but you ran your heart out, and your hair was always outstanding.
I guess with turning 40 on Saturday, more and more of the players I watched from the terraces will start going tits up, though Birch was obviously too young.
Did anyone watch the game tonight on ITV - 110 minutes of typical derby football wihtout any goals, and they then cut to a commerical break in the middle of play :mad: Game come’s back on and everyone at Goodison is going mental because we’ve scored! Fucks sake, amateur broadcasting.
I ain’t complaining though, nothing like putting Liverpool to the sword. We deserved it tbh, once Stevie went off and Fernando climbed into Jagielka’s pocket it was like playing a combative version of Fulham. Lucas gets sent off and we had to win it - there was no way on earth we would have won penalties.
Depends on which part of the country / or which format you viewed it. I was watching on terrestrial itv and by the time we got back to the game Everton players had finished kissing one another and were walking back for the restart.
Torres didn’t seem right to me, I don’t know if he’s completely fit or not or perhaps just getting tired of being the lone ranger in attack.
It looks like to me that Liverpool have blown the title and Champions League tis season.
Looks like my hope/expectation that most of the English teams will get knocked out is going nicely.
Liverpool falling apart (in stark contrast to Madrid), Chelsea falling apart even faster (Juve stumbling too, but Chelsea are really awful at the moment), United possibly improving, hopefully not. Arsenal probably improving, thankfully that’s the one English team I don’t mind winning
Villa’s fixtures:
Wed 18 19:00 H CSKA Moscow UEFA
Sat 21 12:45 H Chelsea PREM
Thu 26 19:45 A CSKA Moscow UEFA
March
Sun 1 15:00 H Stoke City PREM
Wed 4 19:45 A Manchester City PREM
Sun 15 16:00 H Tottenham PREM
Sun 22 16:00 A Liverpool PREM
April
Sat 4 15:00 A Man Utd PREM
Sat 11 15:00 H Everton PREM
Mix of very tough and very inconsistent teams, really tough. If they come through with flying colors (especially if they beat Chelsea) then it’s officially Chelsea v Arsenal for the CL. If not, they could be screwed. Might be a good idea for them to just forget about the UEFA cup.
chowder, I’m pretty sure 'appy 'arry spent more reassembling the Tottenham team that uh, sucked. Defoe, Keane, Palacios, Chimbonda, that’s more than 47. no?
God I hope Tottenham get relegated. So many other dreadful teams around, though, they might not!
