I’ll put in another plug for Sig’s. Great weapons. I have a P226 which is several years old. Very well built, straight shooter. 9mm. If I was to sell, I would want something with a bigger punch though. Although with 15 rounds I am pretty sure I could stop what I needed to. I use it as primary home defense, although I also have a Colt AR-15 carbine chambered for 9mm, so it won’t blast through walls or neighbor’s homes. That Mini-14 may be dangerous to your neighbors if they are close.
My first pick for home defense would be a 12 gauge pump, with a 00 buck and deer slug mix. Ouch.
The reason we’re suggesting a .22 is not to carry as a defensive gun but so you can practice a lot more than you could afford to with centerfire. I thought everyone was making that clear. I carry .45 ACP for defense and though I handload I can’t shoot as much as I’d like to on my budget. For a few dollars I can take a thousand rounds of .22 to the range to burn up. Yes, you’ll have some failures but stick with good ammunition and they will be far fewer. Failures can be a good thing. Learning how to deal with them on the range helps you deal with them in a defensive situation.
You want me to shoot straight and parse literary compositions? Dang! Just try to stay awake, fer cryin’ out loud…
Okay, here we go - the definitive list for your needs, Anthracite:
1. Take a close look at a Kimber Eclipse pistol. There are several sizes to choose from and I know you’ll like the looks and feel of the pistol.
2. Have an engraver put “Anthracite” on both sides of the slide and fill with black. This will match the overall look of the gun.
3. Join an IDPA (International Defense Pistol Association) club. You’ll meet nice folks, learn practical skills, and be eligible to purchase supplies at a club discount.
4. Hi, Opal
5. Learn to reload. You’ll probably be able to use the club reloading equipment, but consider buying a progressive reloader. Once you get your 1911, you’ll be shooting a lot.
I too have experienced this, and learned from experimentation that these problems are almost entirely dependent on the ammunition you use. The very cheapest .22 ammo, like the Remington Thunderbolt, gave me the most problems. They misfired, they jammed, and they gritted up my guns.
Because the .22 is a rimfire, I usually just reloaded the misfires so the hammer would hit a different point on the rim, and 99% of the time they then went off. (NOTE: All ammunition makers warn against doing this.)
The best shooting ammo I found in terms of cleanliness and reliability were the higher-end Federal brands, as well as any brand that comes with a coated bullet. A good rule of thumb I established for myself is to not expect great quality for ammo sold in tubs or boxes of 500 for $8.
Anthracite, after reading over the suggestions in this thread, IMHO your best options are, in order:
1 - A Walther PPK in .380 Auto
2 - A Smith & Wesson Ladysmith in .32 H&R Magnum,
3- A Makarov in .380 Auto.
Perhaps I can help explain the problems some folks are experiencing in regard to .22LR ammo. This kind of ammunition (rimfire) has a lubricant on the bullet. It is a very hard, waxy type of lube that you may not notice when loading rounds into a magazine. The lubricant begins to build up as you fire the gun. After a certain number of shots, the lube build-up and powder residue will start to form a sort of gummy substance in the action of the firearm.
This will usually produce problems in two ways: The firing pin velocity will decrease, causing misfires of chambered rounds; and/or the slide velocity will decrease, causing a malfunction of the kind normally called, “FTE” - failure to eject or “FTF” - failure to feed. All these problems are solved by cleaning the firearm. And, of course, these problems should be non-existant when shooting .22LR ammo in a revolver. If problems are experienced when shooting rimfire ammo in a revolver, that’s a whole 'nother ball game.
I always take a small cleaning kit to the range when I shoot. Although it is best to clean the chamber area with a good solvent such as Hoppe’s #9, followed by a few drops of gun oil, I have seen many shooters just put some gun oil in the chamber to loosen the crud, and keep shooting.
A basic cleaning kit is a good idea to have on hand for lots of good reasons. I recommend the kind of kit with the rigid rod for range use, so you can knock out cases that may get stuck in the chamber. For superlative cleaning, away from the range, I must admit that the newer “snake” cleaning system is difficult to beat.
Lizard: I’m not sure what you meant by “coating.” Are you referring to the metal jacket over the lead bullet, or the lube that I am talking about? A metal jacket is found on many .22LR bullets so that the nose will not be deformed as badly as lead-only bullets when the round is moved from the magazine to the chamber. The jacket (usually a “plating” process, BTW) also helps prevent lead fouling in the barrel of the firearm.
Any good quality ammunition should feed and function in any good quality .22LR gun. The only caveat here is that some .22LR ammo is “hotter” than others, and that will affect the mechanism of semi-auto firearms. Some rimfire guns with heavy slides or stiff mechanisms will not reliably function with lower-velocity ammo. An example of this would be the new current rage in “subsonic match grade .22LR ammunition.” And so on…
The Mini-14 is my “person breaking down the front door or angry mob in the front yard” home defense gun. That and the AK’s with their 75-round drum magazines… :eek:
My “wake up in the middle of the night and hear someone in the house” gun is the aforementioned Ruger P85.
…and, I suppose, the Super Redhawk is the “Don’t bother the crazy angry-looking lady” gun which I would hesitate to fire under most circumstances, as the single time I did sans ear protection I thought I blew out my drum.
Some other notes:
I thought about a compact .45 at one time when CC almost passed in Kansas. I tried one out at the range, and it bounced my body around too much (remember, I’m only 120 pounds). I simply was not able to get comfortable with it - ever. Maybe a better .45 would have worked, but then, that’s another debate…
My Super Redhawk has the 9.5 inch barrel. I purposely got that over the 7.5-inch one to have as much extra weight as possible. It seems to have worked, as even with a 240 grain round, and hot factory load, it still is more controllable than the P85. And that’s just not right.
Between the Walther and the Beretta in .380, what would be the difference? I know that Beretta has a very fine reputation, but am uncertain about Walthers outside of an Ian Fleming book. And SIG’s I know little about - they are very expensive guns a lot of the time, and I am uncertain if they are worth the difference in cost. I don’t have cost figures here in front of me, so maybe it isn’t that much more in .380 than the other options.
I note that even with the coatings and platings on the .22s, they still manage to cover me with lead.
I do love .22s. I shot perhaps (no exaggeration here) 100,000 rounds out of my .22 rifles over a period of 10 years when I was really into target shooting. I too did the “no-no” of rotating the mis-fired round to have the pin strike at a different location as well. :o
My new bolt-action Savage .22 with scope is just simply sweet. And Fierra loves shooting it as well.
Anyhow. I love reading the suggestions and advice here, and it’s making me fill with an urge to drag Fierra to the range sometime this week for some extended further practice.
I have never fired a Walther, but I have fired several copies of the PPK made by other companies. The only comment I can make is based on comparing those to the various Berettas of all calibers I’ve fired, and is that every Beretta’s grip felt too big for me. This was not a problem with the PPK-types, because the original design has a single-column magazine. The PPK-clones were just much easier to hold, and more ergonomic over all.
I have no good real good reason to recommend this, except personal experience.
I once had a CZ-75 chambered for 9mm, with rubber Pachmeyer grips. It was the sweetest little pistol. I could tell the difference in recoil between it an my .22, but not by a huge amount. It certanly never left me with hurting elbows like my Kimber .45 did.
The explanation I’ve seen given as to why the early model CZ-75s kicked fairly gently was that the double-stack magazine made the grip slightly wider along the back side. This in turn distributed the pressure of the recoil better along the inside surface of your hand. The kick is thus gentler and duller.
The one I had was SA/DA and would have made an excellent carry pistol. I still regret selling it, even if it was that or not eat for a month…
I don’t have huge hands, and I had just a slight amount of trouble at first getting my hand around the gun with the Pachmeyer grips. It was still easier than my 1911 .45 though. With the stock grips it was real easy. Too easy, in fact, so I put the Pachmeyers back on and actually came to like the gun quite a bit.
There are some who say that the older ones are better, due to the shorter frame rails leading to less nose weight and better pointability. Mine was one of the old ones, and I liked it a ton.
Some other similiar possibilities mentioned on the first page are the SIG-P210 and Browning Hi-Power. I have no experience with either of these though.
-Ben
Dunno the legal status of these pistols nowadays; many Google pages list US laws banning trafficking in them…
By the way, does anyone else know of any other pistols chambered in .50BMG or higher-powered calibers? The Maad-Griffin is the biggest/baddest one I ever remember reading about…
~
Padeye and those wanting the Walther P22…I’m trading mine in. I don’t like it. Couple of reasons:
Jams all the time on entry. The only bullet that seems to not jam is CCI mini-mags. Other than that Federals and Winchesters have all jammed on entry to the barrel. The bullet feeds up from the clip and catches the upper edge of the barrel. Especially in winter for the first few clips it’ll jam at least once per clip.
Barrel twists the sights. The P22 has an interchangable barrel, long and short. I have the long one and was going to buy the short barrel later. The long barrel attachment looks sorta like this: ooo---- with the o’s being a continuation of the stock and the -'s the barrel itself that is inserted into the stock. Well, after a few rounds the slide hits the o’s and causes end of the gun to twist about 0.5mm - 1mm. Well, the sights are on the end, so the sights twist off center too.
The safety isn’t safe. I was curious as to how the safety worked so I dry-fired it double-action with the safety on. The hammer hit the bar blocking the pin at just the right angle to knock the safety switch up a little. So I tried again and the safety came off completely. So, the third pull would have fired if there was a bullet in the chamber. (I admit this isn’t that huge of a deal, but dammit, a safety shouldn’t do that)
Just a bit too small for my hand. It has an interchangeable grip insert to add some girth to the handle, but it doesn’t help all that much.
I’m trading mine in for a Ruger MkII. The P22 looks cool, but the jams alone are just not worth dealing with.
In addition to Maadi-Griffin, I think Barrett makes a “pistol” in .50BMG. As far as “higher-powered calibers,” .50BMG is the limit for civilian ownership.
Magnum Research’s Desert Eagle is available chambered in .50.
Also, where would one get one of these Marakov’s? They sound very interesting. Otherwise, my choice will probably be either a Beretta or HK USP in .40
Also, Anthracite, I have kinda an off-topic question for you, if you don’t mind. I’ve been wanting to get a pictol for a while, for both target shooting and a little security. But my girlfriend absolutely can’t stand guns. Any ideas, as a woman, of how I can make her more comfortable with them? I’ve told her that if she wants to get married to me, she has to go to the range and try it out at least once (:)). Any other ideas?
Hmmmmm… I haven’t seen anyone mention the good old Browning High Power here. **montana cricket[\B] loves hers, and it’s the most accurate 9mm I’ve shot. You can even get inexpensive Argentine or Hungarian versions.
Just my .02, and as always, this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it…
Good luck, and enjoy the process - it’s almost as much fun deciding what to get as it is shooting it!
Actually, I do have some ideas. Especially as I wanted to introduce Fierra to my hobby/sport, but being English and not having any experience with guns whatsoever, and being female, I wanted to make sure that she at least understood why I liked shooting, even if she never did.
The first and foremost things are twofold, IMO:
Demonstrate at all times and in all ways that you are the epitome of the safe, careful, thoughtful, and tactful firearms owner.
This should be the rule for all firearms owners at all times. But moreso if you are trying to demonstrate responsibility. But it can’t just be an act, it has to be something you do. Women can pick up on falseness, sometimes much moreso than you think.
You must always demonstrate that you take the safety of your firearms and their disposition to the extereme. In handling, pointing of the gun, safety/locks, proper clearing and checking procedures, etc.
You must not joke or make crude references to or about shooting. Even I make some jokes online occasionally, about “making people pay”, about stopping power, etc. These are OK from a humour standpoint on occasion, but they will put a nervous/new person ill at ease very quickly.
Go through the routine of showing the weapon to her, and “de-mystifying it”.
The gun is a very simple machine. Really, they are pathetically uncomplicated. Someone who has never seen a gun or used one is often surprised by just how simple they are. Show a gun to her very carefully - go through the procedure to unload, checkout, etc. Oh yeah - never present the gun to her loaded at first, or for a while. Make sure everything you bring is unloaded and safe.
Show how the gun works. Work the action manually. Show the safety, and how the decocking works. If there is going to be a sudden snap or sound (like when you thumb the slide to close it, or decock) say in advance “It’s going to make a loud click when it closes here - like this.” If it’s a semi-auto, try breaking the gun apart as if for cleaning. Show her how simple it is, but also how such a simple device can be so dangerous.
Show her the ammunition, separately. Explain the differnce, and how dangerous (in a general sense) it is. Don’t say “this would blow your head CLEAN OFF YOUR SHOULDERS!”. That’s crude, and just pointless.
Next, try taking her to a range. Preferably, you might try for a “ladies night”, where she can see that yes, many women do enjoy shooting for fun, and there’s no stigma attached to it. In all things, show how the gun works, safely and with proper procedure. Load it up, and chamber a round. Explain that you’re going to fire a three shots, then set it down and show the target. If there is going to be a shell ejected her way, make sure she isn’t put off by a burning 9mm casing landing on her collarbone as she stands behind you.
Make sure she has proper, good ear protection. And eye protection too.
I strongly recommend starting off with the smallest gun possible. For Fierra, we used one of my .22 rifles.
Show her the proper stance, proper holding with the gun unloaded and no magazine in it. Have her sight, and put down. Have her practice safe/fire switching.
Tell her in advance what to do in case of a misfire, or a jam. (safety on, set the gun down carefully, barrel pointed down range, step back, let you handle it, etc.) Have her go through the motions empty, then load up, and let her try.
Always recognize, and look carefully, to see if she is just put off by shooting in general. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, and if she never returns to the range with you again, at the very least she knows the why’s and wherefor’s, has had the weapon and firearms de-mystified to some extent, and hopefully, if you’re not some sort of dangerous clod, sees that you are a responsible person that she won’t worry about while you are out target shooting.
Don’t pressure her to do it, under any means. This will just make her resent the whole idea of it, and you’ll never win. Remember that Society and the Media in general have demonized gun owners to a large extent over the last 30 years, and that’s a lot of social engineering and blatant misinformation that you have to fight. Then again, she just simply may not like it. In that case, keep inviting her out, but don’t nag or pressure.
Here’s your chance to possibly open a new sport to a woman - one which I strongly feel is a great equalizer for women. Which can even be a vehicle towards empowerment in a male-dominated society - one where a 100 pound woman in a wheelchair can compete in a sport against a 6’10" strapping hunk of man - and win too. And one which can be a start on a road to safe, responsible, firearms use and ownership.
T’aint true. .50 caliber is the largest allowed except for sporting shotguns and registered destructive devices. Yes, a Civilian can own a 20mm weapon though the paperwork is incredible.
One could also make a wildcat by necking a 20mm case to .50 cal and it would be an ordinary title I weapon. I didn’t say it was a good idea.
Tomcat No need to debate the virtues of the Walther but I’m seeing none of those problems with mine. Thanks for the tip on the barrel extension, I won’t bother buying one. I’ve got the optics mount and am looking for an appropriate red dot and next year I may get a Gemtech or Craig Wheatley can for it.
You’ll be happy with the Mk II a many are. It’s a good gun but ordinary. Take a look at a Browning or even the Ruger 22/45 before you buy.
Necros : The Desert Eagle is chambered for .50AE (Action Express) - a completely different caliber. There are other .50 caliber chamberings, including .500 Linebaugh, .500 S&W, and .500 Magnum by Mr. Gary Reeder. These all fire a bullet of one-half inch (or thereabouts) diameter, but they are surely not .50BMG (Browning Machine Gun).
I suppose I should have been a bit more clear in my reference to the largest caliber a civilian can own. Sorry for the confusion. I should have said, “the largest centerfire rifle cartridge caliber.” I was not aware that a civilian can own a 20mm weapon (about .80 caliber); does that come under the classification of “destructive device,” Padeye?
