I’m thinking of the Gifford situation. She forgave her husband. Hilary too. This is a bad idea. If you are a husband,and you run into temptation,and you know your wife will forgive you,wouldn’t you be more likely to cheat? There is some marriage counselors who say the couple should Never,Ever consider divorce. And,can you think of any famous husbands who’ve forgiven their publicly cheating spouses? Why does it seem to be the guys who cheat?And get forgiven??
Maybe the women are good enough at it not to get caught.
As for why those two didn’t just divorce their hubbys I haven’t a clue. I certainly would have been more impressed by their character if they had.
This could easily disintegrate into a flame war, but in my opinion, Hilary forgave Bill because they’re a political team. Kathy forgave Frank because she’s a Christian.
Picture me, ducking and running from the room.
A ship in the harbor is safe, but that isn’t what a ship is built for.
They do it because of low self confidence… they forgive in the hopes that they can return to the way things were without a big upset… it’s classic psychology… they talk about it alot in public schools these days. It doesn’t ahppen to guys because either the guys are too proud to admit it’s happening or they dump the cheatin’ bitches because they’re raised with more self-confidence. Or so I’m told.
“C’mon, it’s not even tomorrow yet…” - Rupert
If you need a graphic solution, http:\ alk.to\Piglet
My step-dad thought he could get away with a sexual trist, be forgiven by my mom and have everything be hunky-dory. WRONG. Not only did he mess up my mom’s love for him, he just gained 3 pissed off step children. I hate him. I really really do. My mom is in the process of giving the douch-bag the boot. So hopefully by x-mas I’ll have an extra special present with his ass kicked out of the house. After learning from a jerk what not to do, I know what it takes to be a real man, and that cheating is not the thing to do. Sure its fun for a night, a week or in my case an entire year, but you get burned when its all over. And no matter if the wife is willing to forgive, its always going to be a thorn in her side. No one can fully forgive, its just not possible.
“I’m not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.”-- Calvin and Hobbes
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I don’t think the OP pointless or mundane, nevertheless, it is a topic better served in MPSIMS.
Nickrz
GQ Mod
I don’t think it’s fair to characterize all women who remain with unfaithful husbands as having low self-confidence.
While my “ideal” of marriage would certainly include fidelity as part of the definition, there are many other facets to a relationship besides exclusive sexual “rights”.
Hilary, I believe, has long had political aspirations of her own, and may see her continued marriage to Bill as a way of obtaining publicity, and the all-important campaign funds. How many other people choose a U.S. Senate race as their first political race? OTOH, once the election is over, win or lose, I wouldn’t be surprised to see her cut Bill loose.
Ann Landers/Dear Abby helped women grappling with imperfect relationships/marriages focus on what they really wanted by having them consider whether they were better off with him or without him in the long term.
I think a self-confident woman can decide she’s better off with him, especially for a first offense, OR decide to stay for the short term while preparing for a long-term without him (Get an education, starter job, let kids grow up to be in school full-time).
[aside]Dale, beware. None of this pertains to you.[/aside]
Sue from El Paso
members.aol.com/majormd/index.html
I don’t think that forgiveness in these cases is worth the bother. You’ve shown them that they can get away with it. The thing to do, as I now realize from painful experience, is to make it abundantly clear from the get-go that if he, (or in my case, she), can’t keep his hands to himself, then he can’t keep you, either, and to be prepared to reinforce this message when his eye starts to rove. And possibly, just possibly, admit to yourself that whatever other sterling qualities he may have, he may hurt you one day, and to be prepared to deal with that, too.
That’s my two bright and shiny new Lincoln Memorials, anyway.
God is dead. -Nietzsche
Nietzsche is dead. -God
Neitzsche is God. -Dead
In the case of Hillary Clinton, there’s a point to consider that even aside from her own political involvements, she was also First Lady. Nobody gets to the White House w/o it being a team effort. To be fair, it’s pretty mind boggling to imagine the over-the-top soap opera that would have blown up if she’d filed for divorce.
Kathy Lee? I don’t understand, either. She’s an android. Her sympathy letter to Howard Stern about his divorce was just plain queasy and surreal.
I dunno, maybe it’s situational. My Ex fooled around and got booted without a second thought or regret, but he also showed no disinclination to stop fooling around. Easy choice. For a one-time lapse, maybe it would be possible to forgive and rebuild. This is probably my lack, but forgetting would be impossible. Trust, at least mine, just isn’t glued together that easily once broken. There would always be a little wondering…
Maybe some people (men and women) can pick up and go on if it was a one-time thing and there was enough “good” to counterbalance the loss.
Ish. Makes me appreciate my dog more.
Veb
Men have affairs.
Women get divorced.
It’s the midlife crisis thing to do.
I’m not about to argue in favor of infidelity, but I think the topic has, potentially, a lot more levels, overtones, shadings, and general complexity than these short posts can provide.
From my perspective, Hillary could easily be seen as simply hanging on for the political aspects and Kathy Lee simply looks like a twit in any event.
However, is it not possible that they (and the many other women who are cheated on) do love their husbands? Most marriage vows still include a “for better or worse” clause as well as an “as long as we both shall live” (or similar) phrase.
The last few times I saw “studies” (more probably polls) reporting infidelity, it seemed that the numbers followed along the lines of 60% of all married people (not just men) engage in an adulterous liaison at least once during their marriage–but the vast majority of them engage in only one.
It would seem that a lot of people (more frequently, but not exclusively men) step outside once, then come back and remain faithful for the rest of their lives. (And I freely admit that these are vague memories of skim-read articles. I am not prepared to defend by opinion based on the numbers.)
Now if your partner cheats and you decide to throw the bum out, I am not about to suggest a second chance. I will never break my vows and I do not understand people who do.
However, I am not sure where any of us get off judging how another person should handle the situation. One of the things that I found very humorous regarding the Clinton situation was the number of staunch, right-wing, Fundamentalist people who opposed everything Clinton did or stood for, who then castigated Hillary for doing exactly what their churches demanded–standing by her man.
In the age if HIV, of course, there can not be a simple forgive-and-forget solution. (I doubt that there ever could be, of course.) Wandering around bringing home fatal diseases ups the ante quite a bit on the underlying horror of being unfaithful.
I’m still uncomfortable, however, for other people to be commenting on the appropriate actions that should be permitted to a married couple by strangers and even friends who are not in the relationship.
Tom~
What the hell? You can’t just lump everyone in the situation into that tiny little box. Some might have low self confidence, some might want to stay together for lots of other reasons (children, companionship, etc)… sex is NOT a marriage. Geez!
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O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com
I think I’m a rarity. I don’t cheat but I have been cheated on and I know other who have cheated on their loved ones. In some instances, I agreed - like when wifey or hubby was being a real bitch or bastard. In others, I disagreed – hubby or wifey out for a fling because they’re bored.
A sweet young lady I was considering marrage to cheated on me = twice. The first time, I reluctantly forgave her because the guy was her ex and we had had a spat. The second time I did not. Even after the first time, I could not find myself trusting her and the second time ended the marrage plans. I dunno, maybe I’m weird but for a long time, when we had sex, I kept thinking about some other guy, who I disliked, not only seeing her nude but touching her and being IN her and leaving some of himself in there. I never cared about what she had done before we became a couple, but afterwards was a different matter. We broke up for good. I hate that shit.
Mark
“Think of it as Evolution in action.”
Is it true that men cheat more than women? I’ve known probably five or six couples that had to deal with infidelity, and in every case it was the wife who strayed.
In the past it was probably true that the husband strayed more often, but that was probably due to the fact that the husband worked and the wife stayed home, and therefore the wife simply didn’t have the social contact that brought on an affair. Nowadays, I’d be willing to guess that it’s about 50/50 as to which one will stray.
Amongst people I know, I can think of two instances of the guy cheating and three instances of the woman cheating - I won’t even take the time to try and document the happenings amongst the gay folk I’ve known - different set of rules or something, I don’t know.
Now I must say that one of the two guys is a repeat offender and has never gotten caught, and he’s strayed from more than one marriage. So do I count him again? Well, no, we’ve learned in the recent past that getting a blowjob from someone you’re not emotionally attached to is not really sex, at least if you’re a Democrat. Kinda.
All three of the women cheating things resulted in divorce. As I said, one guy’s never been caught but he divorces frequently anyway. The other guy’s wife is an angel in his family’s eyes - she has stayed and “repaired” things - I don’t know, this is only about a year old. He is a sheep in wolf’s clothing (hate to describe one of my oldest friends that way, but it’s accurate). He works for the government and the dalliance was with his boss.
Anyway, the common wisdom amongst my acquaintance is that you’ll never trust’em again and that is how I feel; also, the Pavlovian thing comes to play - they learn that they can in fact get away with it.
Nope, that’s the line you don’t cross. At least it’s the line you don’t cross if you want to understand your life.
IMHO, it also has to do with the situation. My ex cheated on me with about a half dozen different women, but the first time I strayed, it completely destroyed what was left of the marriage. He couldn’t handle the fact that I had slept with another guy. BTW, the “other man”, so to speak, is the guy I’m married to now. Pretty funny, have only slept with three men in my entire life, and I’ve been married to two of them. Which is why I couldn’t never cheat on this husband, because I know if I did, I would end up falling in love with the other guy because, for me, sex and love are all wrapped up into one package. Casual sex is something I don’t think I’m capable of.
I believe in Hilary Clinton’s situation, it has more to do with her political ambitions that anything else. As long as she keeps the jerk around and doesn’t divorce, it makes her look good to certain voters. In Kathy Lee’s situation, it apparently was a one time only kind of thing that happened, and she’s apparently decided to give him one more chance. I bet if he did it again, however, she would drop him like a bad habit.
Shadowfox
“Most people would succeed in small things, if they were not troubled with
great ambitions.”
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1807-1882)
This site may help you with your questions.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/
cgiwrap/marriage/Ultimate.cgi
When you get there just click on the Infidelity forum. The basic board is set up much like SDMB.
These aren’t well known people, just everyday folks like you and I who are having to deal with this horror in thier lives.
I will say this , it takes a stronger person to stay and try to make it work, than to just walk.
But there does come a time when anyone has to say enough is enough !
If your spouse strays and you forgive them. And they chose to do so again, well it’s time to go.
shrug
Some learn, some don’t .
Ayesha - Lioness
You sound reasonable. Must be time to up my medication.
I think Kathie Lee lost an alarming amount of weight right after the “incident”, for a woman who didn’t need to lose any. It was obvious that infidelity was taking its toll on her. I can’t imagine a more humilating scenario than have my husband’s infidelity thrown in my face, and my children’s face, in that way. I never liked Kathie Lee much before, but I did have a bit of sympathy for her after this. I know a couple women who have forgiven their spouses and gone on to have a (seemingly) good marriage.
My opinion of the stewardess that Frank Gifford cheated with is that she’s on the same level as Linda Tripp.
As far as Frank Gifford goes, I would suspect that it wasn’t the first time he cheated. And that’s the hard part about infidelity. Once you lose your trust, how could you possibly re-gain it? Especially after your partner looked you right in the face and denied it, until the proof made it impossible to lie anymore. Yikes.
As far as the Clinton’s, I think Bill will always be unfaithful. But like Jerry Hall, Hilary will probably take what she can get. Women will constantly be throwing themselves at her husband because who he is. She’ll either have to deal or leave.
It ain’t a bad gig being First Lady, and I’d keep it, too. But as strong a lady as she seems to be, it’s pretty obvious that she’s whipped over a man who doesn’t respect her. Sad.
It’s my belief that a couple CHOOSES to get married and accept the “rules” of such a union. It’s not a prison sentence - if you want to stray then end the union and go on your way.
I’m not a demanding person in such that I don’t ask “where are you going?, when will you be home?, where were you?”, etc. I would accept “honey I’m going fishing this weekend” and not question it. In other words, I don’t expect, or want “honey, is it OK if I go fishing this weekend?”. Don’t get me wrong, I expect the same in return.
We’ve been married 12 years and I trust my husband 100 percent. Why? I have no reason not to and because I couldn’t stand it if I didn’t. I won’t live that way - without trust. I’ve said more than once that if he wants his freedom than it’s his. It’s his choice to be with me. No tantrums, no fits … if he doesn’t love me anymore than I’d rather he left.
You may say you forgive but you will NEVER forget. And that will have a decaying effect on the relationship.
Being a Canadian I must admit that I am somewhat removed from the Hilary and Kathy Lee situation but my humble opinion: they both should have booted the bums out!
First of all, one does not need to have ulterior motives to forgive an affair, like those mentioned in the OP might. One needs to love their spouse, realize it was a mistake, and try their damndest to get past the ugliness.
On a side note, the best way to get a guy to cheat who isn’t even thinking about it is to accuse him of it repeatedly.
No, I haven’t cheated, and I don’t think i would. But I’ve seen that scenerio play itself out in many relationships…
Yer pal,
Satan