orange, those marriages you site are ‘business marriages.’ In other words, they are worth far more money & successfulness if they stay together. That doesn’t necessarily mean that they are still married socially. I don’t think those women are bonking their husbands anymore.
Also, Kathie has to deal with her clothing line sweat shop accusations. That is a much bigger thing for her because it directly effects her money & success in the future.
Americans (& Canadians) really find infidelity a taboo topic and that’s why they take it so seriously. You rarely see it in sitcoms because people take it so seriously. Then if you go to Europe they have sitcoms where the main character is a cop and his mistress is a prostitute that he’s protecting. And this is not one of those situations where they show it as a moral lesson and something bad happens, that’s just the story.
When I was in Poland last summer I heard a guy say “Do you know what they divorced for? Infidelity! Can you believe that? In this day and age?”. He was really surprised that a marriage was over just because of an affair.
I don’t know if as many Europeans are as cavalier about it as all that – you may very well be right, but (here’s my U.S.-centrism showing) I find it hard to believe that the women, especially, really find it no big deal. Maybe they do, but then I think I prefer the American/Canadian attitude. IMHO, people should find cheating on a spouse shocking.
And Kathie Lee, whom I don’t especially admire, gets a lot of sympathy points from me on this one. He not only cheated, he made a very public fool of her; she so obviously totally believed in him. And since it happened, she has gotten alarmingly thin and wears borderline slutty, much-too-young clothes. It’s really pretty sad.
Catrandom
Ahhh, what’s the big deal about cheating? What your spouse doesn’t know won’t hurt them, right? And besides, you can ~tell~ if someone has a communicable disease, just by looking at them.
(********** now ducking and running for cover!)
Let’s face it, most famous people, including all of Hollywood, are somehow screwed up.So when they fool around, it’s with other famous people or wannabees.
England has weird divorce laws. If you know your spouse has been cheating on you for 6 months & claim adultry as the reason, the court won’t grant it. Same thing if their is abuse. The reason why is because the court assumes if its been going on for so long that the person thinks its okay.
even if there is a beating after 6 months, its techinically possible to still file but rare to get it granted.
So how does the diminishing sex life syndrome fit in to this picture? I lived with my ex for 2 years before we got married, and we enjoyed what I considered to be a robust sex life (4-5 times per week). Within 7 months of the wedding however, the frequency dropped to maybe twice a month. It sure wasn’t due to my lack of desire; she just never “felt like it” anymore.
Do the “rules” provide for any expectation of marital relations, or is that just me being crass? Is she the victim when I respond to advances by other women in the absence of any interest from her, or am I supposed to become a monk for the sake of the “rules”? Is it your contention that as soon as I am dissatisfied with our sex life I should end the union and go on my way? Am I a bad person, either way?
Unless I have mis-characterized your views, it’s no wonder many men are scared shitless by marriage. The odds for success are very slim, and we always end up the bad guys.
TT
“Believe those who seek the truth.
Doubt those who find it.” --Andre Gide
All this talk about cheating has me thinking. What reasons if any would you think that it is ok to cheat. I know a couple that has not had sex in four years because she doesn’t want to. If he cheated would you think he had the right or should he live the rest of his life waiting for her to decide that she wants sex again?
From my personal experience, lack of sex drive has more to do with how sexually attracted SHE feels as opposed to how sexually stimulating she finds her spouse.
When my children were quite young, I had zero sex drive for awhile. I was exhausted, I had two children and a husband making constant demands on me (“Feed me!” “Hold me!”) and the LAST thing I wanted to do was answer to another DEMAND. And, let’s face it, men that are used to having sex 4 or 5 times a week can get quite hostile and demanding if all of a sudden it stops. And who wants to have sex with someone who is hostile towards you?
Is that a reason to cheat? No. Not any more than I had a good reason to cheat because I felt overworked and underappreciated. If my sex drive took a nose dive, so did my husband’s thoughtfulness. We weren’t dating anymore, so courting was a thing of the past. It’s not like he ever called for a sitter and said, “Honey, I’m taking you out to dinner cause you deserve it.”
The good news is that the kids grew, and so did we as a married couple. We got through that awful time because we were committed to our marriage. Today, my sex drive is back stronger than ever and I can honestly say I think we are very happy together. We are a family.
I used to be a terribly jealous person, but lately I’ve been trying to convince my husband to have an affair. We’ve been married 10 years; in 10 years I’ve wanted to “do it” maybe three times total. I don’t know if something was damaged during childbirth or what, but I have tried and tried and tried and I can’t get it up, so to speak. My husband is an unusually attractive guy, so I assume the fault lies with me. Husband wants to “do it” at least once a day, more if time allows. The result is if I don’t give in, he’s (rightfully?) angry and often simply takes what he wants without my consent.
If he had a girlfriend, the pressure would be off of me. If he fell in love with someone else, I could deal with that because I just want him to be happy. So far he’s refused to consider the idea; he claims he loves me too much to cheat on me. sigh
Ooof!
Holly, if he just “takes” it, that starts sounding like rape.
If you love him and he claims to love you, then I think you ought to see a counsellor. Lots of guys are horny enough to want it daily; no guy should expect/demand it daily. If you two do love each other, then there are probably other issues that are causing you to never be in the mood.
Being angry on a specific occasion when there were preset expectations is understandable. Being angry if you cut him off for months is understandable. Being angry every single time you indicate that you are not in the mood is unreasonable–especially if that is a daily occurrence.
My pop-psychology version of this is that he is in a constant state of “prepared” anger because he expects you to not be in the mood and you are constantly not in the mood because you are upset by his anger. You have both set up a situation where you are both going to be unhappy.
Get help. If he won’t go, go alone to find out why you’re willing to put up with that sort of emotional blackmail.
Since I see only your side from your post, I’m not going to make any assumptions as to what led to what and I am not going to assume that he is the bad guy. However, if this situation has gone on for 10 years, you really need to do something about this. Mentioning it on the SDMB is one thing, but getting it worked out requires you and your husband working together–probably with some professional assistance.
(And please go back and look at my first sentence.)
Tom~
I’d add that there are a number of physical/hormonal problems in women that can lead to reduced or non-existant sex drive. Go see a gynecologist who specializes in sexual dysfunction. It could also be an emotional problem, in which case sex counselling may help.
Speaking as a male, I have to say that a reasonably active sex life is extremely important to our emotional happiness. Men tend to need a sexual component to a relationship to really feel loved. Your constant refusal may make him emotionally distant and he may not treat you as well as he would if you had an active sex life.
He also probably wants it ‘every day’ simply because he’s not getting it very often at all, so he’s thinking about it all the time. If you agreed to have sex with him whenever he wanted it, you’d probably find that the frequency would decrease to a more normal 2-3 times a week or even less.
I’m hesitant to bring up my own situation, because every time I do, someone tries to tell me that it’s “wrong” or that my husband and I don’t love each other… but… sigh here goes:
If my husband wants to date someone else, that is fine with me, as long as A) he doesn’t lie to me about it and B) he practices safe sex.
Same goes for me wanting to date someone else.
In our eyes, that isn’t “cheating” since no one is being deceived. Where it is WRONG and HURTFUL is when it is a betrayal…
–
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com
My husband and I have been putting a lot of effort recently into trying to resolve our little problem. Yes, Tom, it IS an awful lot like rape; given a choice, I’d rather have my husband cheat on me than rape me.
But what are you supposed to do when one person wants it all the time and the other rarely ever does? How do you resolve that? Like I said before, I have tried very hard to want to do it with no success. Though it isn’t fair for a person to take it by force, it also isn’t fair for a husband to not get it. Like dhanson said, sex is pretty important to a guy. I don’t refuse him constantly, though; I don’t refuse him when I have a fever of 103, a migraine, if I’m throwing up, or if I’m too tired to live. We do it about 6 times a week at least, so he’s hardly deprived.
That is to say, I don’t feel like he’s deprived. 6 times a week is 6 times more than I’d like to do it, but my husband no doubt feels like I refuse him “constantly” because he would prefer to do it 3 times a day. (Quote: “My idea of a perfect marriage is having sex 3 times a day.”) How often do I have to submit to him? I’ve begged him to at least use some lotion when he gets the urge to take me against my will while I’m sleeping because I’ve sustained some painful injuries that way. Is THAT too much to ask?
Yes, I’m angry. I wish he would find a girlfriend. I know of several women who would kill for a chance to sleep with him, so it wouldn’t be too difficult for him to find someone.
I would love to have a relationship like OpalCat’s.
What do you do when one wants it way more than the other? I think it’s the same with any issue. What happens when one wants to ____ way more than the other? Fill in the blank: spend, hunt, drink, shop, or have sex. You compromise.
And if you’re married to someone who can’t or won’t compromise, then you have to decide whether it’s worth it to stay in the marriage.
Ack!
Holly, I have some rather personal questions for you. If you don’t want to answer them, or if you want to e-mail the answers to me, feel free.
First off, were you a virgin when you married? I know several people who were like that, and none of them ever really learned to enjoy sex. Secondly, does your husband ever try foreplay? It sounds as if you aren’t sufficiently turned on when he tries to have sex with you, and that can hurt like a sumbitch. If sex=pain to you, I can see why you wouldn’t want to have anything to do with it.
I’ll echo Tom’s advice here, and ask you to seek therapy. Go alone, to a sex therapist, at first, and then when you feel comfortable with it, ask your husband to go along with marriage counseling. It seems as if you have some real power issues in your relationship.
As far as I’m concerned, I’d much rather that my girlfriend have any affairs with other people when I’m not expected home. I think I’d feel uncomfortable and awkward if I walked in on them.
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