The original French “study” doesn’t even rise to the level of anecdotal.
6 patients had no detectable virus after 6 days. 3 were intubated in ICU due to respiratory complications of the infection, 1 died, and 1 quit the pills due to adverse reaction to the drugs. Fox only reported on the healed patients.
OK, I am not a Dr. Dr.- just a pharmacist with a Ph.D. in a dept. of pharmacy practice for the past 27 years, so maybe Dr. Oz outguns me. But even though I’m a cripple and 63, I’m fairly sure I can still kick his ass…So I can live with it.
One thing to remember- the FDA is an agency of the executive branch; in other words, the President sets their budget and appoints their people. They are political, because they have to be.
As to Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate;
Off-Label Uses: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19); Level of Evidence [C]
Level of Evidence Definitions: Level of Evidence Scale (A, B, C & G)
C=“Evidence from observational studies (eg, retrospective case series/reports providing significant impact on patient care), unsystematic clinical experience, or from potentially flawed randomized, controlled trials (eg, when limited options exist for condition). Any estimate of effect is uncertain.”
Or, to paraphrase a post, We don’t know.
What we do know is that this isn’t an over the counter (OTC) medication. As I tell my students , drugs are prescription-only for a very simple reason- they can, somehow or someway, kill you. NO drug therapy is risk free- it is always a cost|benefit assessment.
We don’t have diddly, in my humble opinion, of reliable evidence for this molecule as an antiviral. The size of the studies makes them VERY susceptible to all sorts of bias. Most drugs being tested for being allowed on the market are evaluated in 1-5,000 people, depending on animal toxicity studies. So there’s rather wobbly evidence for this molecule doing anything (I’m skipping null hypothesis, Type I & II errors, Statistical significance and statistical power out of kindness).
But, I know- we don’t KNOW.
Yep, but what we DO know is the drug is not harmless. If you give it to a large enough number of people, some of those people ARE going to die, as a direct result of the drug.
Retinopathy incidence is 10-40% depending on length of therapy, (years) but renal impairment and being thin (you know, things common in the old) increase odds for early occurrence; going blind isn’t dead, but it’s not fun, either.
Severe hypoglycemia- including life-threatening loss of consciousness, Cardiomyopathy resulting in cardiac failure, sometimes fatal, Suicidal behavior/psychosis, Bone marrow suppression (u stop making blood cells), acute hepatic failure, and renal impairment were all identified in clinical trials- these are labeled “frequency not defined” but ,again, clinical trials are usually 1,000-5,000 people, depending on toxicity seen in animal studies. The rule of thumb is, the inverse of the incidence = the number of people needed to detect an effect. So incidence range is 1/10th of a % to 2/100th of a % detected during clinical trials; post-marketing findings: (meaning, only seen when large # of people were taking it, so lower incidence than range above) Renal insufficiency, extrapyramidal reaction, Neutropenia, pancytopenia, Cardiomyopathy, prolonged QT interval, torsades de pointes, and ventricular arrhythmia.
Those #'s aren’t great- a drug like this wouldn’t be OK’ed for morning sickness- but malaria kills- again- cost|benefit analysis.
So we don’t KNOW if this molecule could help with COVID-19, but we DO KNOW, that is if we give it to a million people, 200 (on the low end) will suffer acute hepatic failure- and that’s just one of the ADRs.
Hydroxychloroquine is a good drug, used carefully, in the right patients, by clinicians familiar with its use, for disease states with high “costs”. But it’s not candy, and advocating population-wide administration of this agent in the absence of an over-whelming preponderance of evidence for significant therapeutic benefit is simply not justifiable.
In fact, I’ll be happy to play expert witness in a court of law again, and state that, in my considered opinion, it is more than “not justifiable” - it is criminally actionable. And I’M a stupid conservative!
Well, not THAT stupid. 
That exchange on Fox should be played after every rally, I mean press briefing, where Trump touts the drug.
This was a very thorough, informative, and entertaining ass-kicking. Thank you for that. You’re not a stupid conservative, you’re one of the good ones.
Some studies for (hydroxy)chloroquine have shown increased risks of QT prolongation and ventricular arrhythmia. These can be potentially dangerous side effects. A small study in Brazil was stopped yesterday because of them. But this is hardly a surprise effect, and I presume other studies are still continuing.
One of the studies being made, just came with negative results: French study finds hydroxychloroquine doesn’t help patients with coronavirus.
How about the lives of many? You Agent Orange! :mad:
Didn’t read the whole thread. Just want to relate my experience with Chloroquine. Took it for a while 29 years ago as an antimalarial precaution. It seriously interfered with sleep. What sleep I got was punctuated by strange and twisted dreams. Have talked with other people who had similar experience. Would NOT recommend.
It’s also only 60-70% effective as an antimalarial IIRC, and those are apparently not the only side effects: comes with a side order of nausea and other symptoms too from what I remember.
I used to take mefloquine and had very similar experiences. Seems like those quinine compounds do some crazy shit to your brain.
Trump has toned down trumpeting it as a silver bullet for the past few days, so I was expecting that the trials were not going good. It’s too bad, but highlights how foolishly irresponsible Trump is for his daily misinformation and lying. Why can’t he just shut up and let the professionals deal with this mess?
His insightful intestines direct him otherwise. And because solipsism, nothing exists outside himself. Nobody else knows anything. He’s lost if not in total control.
Who has lately seen the nation’s top medical officer, the Surgeon General?
“Citing a “primary outcome” of death, researchers cut short a study testing anti-malaria drug chloroquine as a potential treatment for COVID-19 after some patients developed irregular heart rates and nearly two dozen of them died after taking doses of the drug daily.”
Are you sure that wasn’t mefloquine? As someone who has lived and traveled in malarial regions a great deal, I’ve been prescribed both, and I’ve never heard of chloroquine messing up your mind.
On the other hand, Mefloquine (brand name Larium) is really bad, psychologically speaking. I know, I came close to having a psychotic break on the stuff while the medical world was still in denial that it had any side effects (they’ve since recanted and even identified the mechanisms by which the side effects occur).
Malarone can cause vivid dreams and psychosis.
ETA: Oh, and: Psychosis following chloroquine ingestion: a 10-year comparative study from a malaria-hyperendemic district of India
Malarone is the usual anti-malarial of choice now, because any side effects are generally much milder than other drugs. I haven’t seen vivid dreams or psychosis listed even among rare side effects.
I think you may be confusing it with Lariam (Mefloquine):
No, I’m thinking of Malarone. Yes, it has fewer side effects but can still cause these effects.
Super fun when you’re in loco parentis on an international trip!
Some other studies have apparently shown more harm than benefit. I hope they find something cheap and effective for these things since this is not the last pandemic. And vaccines are tricky.
FDA revokes emergency use of hydroxychloroquine